@movq@www.uninformativ.de ok, I have included a small modification in the documentation to allow you to reply in your own thread: https://texudus.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
You can see my reply: https://andros.dev/texudus.txt
Don’t delete anything and give me time to make my modifications to the client.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I set up a test feed here:

https://www.uninformativ.de/texudus.txt

I made some preliminary adjustments to my client so that it can work with the different threading model. (And I totally get the concerns, this can be quite a bit of work. Especially in a large code base like Yarn.)

@bender@twtxt.net Mainly the bsd.cafe ones. I like how the minimalist single column profiles look. Image embeds are full width and reading through threads feels nice (as in it doesn’t feel like pealing layers upon layers of a fresh onion).

An Apple Library Primer
Comments ⌘ Read more

just for the record I didn’t say I was leaving the twtxt ‘community’ (did I?) but than I have other priorities to focus on in the following months. Please don’t be condescending, is not cool.

Development of Timeline (PHP client) has been stale for some reasons, a few of them in my side, so I think it won’t be updated to the new thread model, at least pretty soon.
So is not that I’ll stop using twtxt, just the client I use won’t be compatible with the new model in July.

If we must stick to hashes for threading, can we maybe make it mandatory to always include a reference to the original twt URL when writing replies?

Instead of

(<a href="https://txt.sour.is/search?q=%23123467">#123467</a>) hello foo bar

you would have

(<a href="https://txt.sour.is/search?q=%23123467">#123467</a> http://foo.com/tw.txt) hello foo bar

or maybe even:

(<a href="https://txt.sour.is/search?q=%23123467">#123467</a> 2025-04-30T12:30:31Z http://foo.com/tw.txt) hello foo bar

This would greatly help in reconstructing broken threads, since hashes are obviously unfortunately one-way tickets. The URL/timestamp would not be used for threading, just for discovery of feeds that you don’t already follow.

I don’t insist on including the timestamp, but having some idea which feed we’re talking about would help a lot.

@eapl.me@eapl.me I honestly believe you are overreacting here a little bit 🤣 I completely emphasize with you, it can be pretty tough to feel part of a community at times and run a project with a kind of “democracy” or “vote by committee”. But one thing that life has taught me about open source projects and especially decentralised ecosystems is that this doesn’t really work.

It isn’t that I’ve not considered all the other options on the table (which can still be), it’s just that I’ve made a decision as the project lead that largely helped trigger a rebirth of the use of Twtxt back in July 1 2020. There are good reasons not to change the threading model right now, as the changes being proposed are quite disruptive and don’t consider all the possible things that could go wrong.

@bmallred@staystrong.run Hehe, @bender@twtxt.net is gonna be upset with you for “making up a thread/subject” 🤣

@bender@twtxt.net Nah it’s there but it’s a reply to a thread that isn’t found here hmmm 🤔

NUCLEO-WBA65RI Brings Bluetooth LE, Thread, and Zephyr RTOS to STM32 Nucleo-64 Platform
The NUCLEO-WBA65RI is a wireless STM32 Nucleo-64 development board built around the STM32WBA65RIV7 microcontroller. It combines the MB2130 MCU RF board with the MB1801 mezzanine board to support Bluetooth LE and IEEE 802.15.4-based protocols such as Thread, Matter, and Zigbee. The STM32WBA65RIV7 microcontroller is a 32-bit Arm Cortex-M33 device featuring 2 MB of flash and … ⌘ Read more

@abucci@anthony.buc.ci Haha you’ll have to forgive me, this thread is over a week old now and I’m a bit lost now 🤣 even though I can now see the entire thread, what are we saying was messed up and is garbled? 🤔

hehe, just catching up on this thread! I’ve replied in another that using periods/dots sounds good to me as it’s usual in domains, but perhaps some agreement would be needed. For now I think any character is valid as long as it is not a space.
For example we are using this for PHP twtxt.php#L153

I open a discussion thread: why didn’t the registers work? Will they work later?
#twtxt

After reading you, @eapl.me@eapl.me, I’ll tell you my point of view.
In my opinion, a feed does not have to be equivalent to a timeline. A timeline is a representation of the feed adapted to a user. You may not be interested in seeing other people’s threads or DMs. But perhaps they are interested in seeing mentions or DMs directed at them. It is important not to fall into the trap. With that clarification…
I insist, this is my point of view, it is not an absolute truth: I don’t think extensions should be respectful of customers who are no longer maintained.
We cannot have a system that is simple, backwards compatible and extensible all at the same time. We have to give up some of the 3 points. I would not like to give up simplicity because it will then make it harder to maintain the customers who do stay. Therefore, I think it is better to give up backwards compatibility and play with new formulas in the extensions. I don’t think it’s a good idea to make a hash keep so much load: a hashtag, a thread and also a DM.

@bender@twtxt.net Hehe, thanks for fixing this (was) broken thread 🧵 Haha 🤣

Am I the only one that’s confused by the discussions, and then the voting we had on the whole threading model? 🤔 I’m not even sure what I voted for, but I know it wasn’t the one that won haha 🤣 (which I’m still very much against for based on an intuition, experience and lots of code writing lately).

@prologic@twtxt.net Shit like what? References/threads? 😅

Timeline of Evolution of Twtxt/Yarn.social:

• 2016 – Twtxt created by John Downey: plain text + HTTP = minimalist microblogging
  
• 2017–2019 – Community builds CLI tools, but adoption remains niche
  
• 2020 – Yarn.social launched by @prologic@twtxt.net with federation, threading, UI
  
• 2021–2023 – Pods sync, user mentions, blocking, search, and media support added
  
• 2024+ – Yarn.social becomes the reference Twtxt platform, with active federated pods

I asked ChatGPT what it knows about Twtxt 😂 And surprisingly it’s rather accurate:

Twtxt is a minimalist, decentralized microblogging format introduced by John Downey in 2016. It uses plain text files served over HTTP—no accounts, databases, or APIs.
In 2020, James Mills (@prologic@twtxt.net) launched Yarn.social, an extended, federated implementation with user discovery, threads, mentions, and a full web UI.
Both share the same .twtxt.txt format but differ in complexity and social features.

@kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz It’s more like a cache, it stores things like “timestamp of the most recent twt we’ve seen per feed” or “last modification date” (to be used with HTTP’s if-modified-since header). You can nuke these files at any time, it might just result in more traffic (e.g., always getting a full response instead of just “HTTP 304 nope, didn’t change”).

@quark@ferengi.one Yes, I often write a couple of twts, don’t publish them, then sometimes notice a mistake and want to edit it. You’re right, as soon as stuff is published, threads are going to break/fork by edits.

@quark@ferengi.one No editing old Twts that are the root of a thread with replies in the ecosystem. Just results in a fork. Unless the client has an implementation that does not store Twts keyed by Hash.

Open Your Favorite Chat Right From Your iPhone Lock Screen
In iOS 18.4, Apple added a new Shortcuts action to open a specific conversation in the Messages app. This means it’s now possible to open a chat thread with someone important to you straight from your Lock Screen, for example. Keep reading to learn more.

Image

If you’d like to reduce the time it takes to chat with a frequently conta … ⌘ Read more

Vim Golf test thread ⌘ Read more

@david@collantes.us Yeah, we’ve been debugging that a bit yesterday. Looks like the wrong input (sometimes) gets fed to the hash function → broken threads.

@david@collantes.us Ah, yes, the hardware might not. As I just said in the other thread: No problem, you can keep the same installation. I did so many times on my PC/laptop at work.

@prologic@twtxt.net The threads’ broken for me, I can’t find znf6csa. 🤔

@bender@twtxt.net i had to go to your instance to see the root post because I ACCIDENTALLY MUTED THE THREAD LMFAOOOOO but interesting re: unfollowing!

@kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz I MUTED MY OWN THREAD this is what happens when i post at 7am

We should look at this thread
https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/1873
#twtxt

iOS 18.4 Bug Seemingly Resurrects Previously Deleted iPhone Apps
Apple’s latest iOS 18.4 software update appears to be causing long-deleted apps to reappear on some users’ iPhones, based on corroborating reports on forums and social media.

Image

Several Reddit threads ( 1, 2, 3, [4 … ⌘ Read more

For anyone following the proposals to improve replies and threads in twtxt, the voting period has started and will be open for a week.
https://eapl.me/rfc0001/

Please share the link with the twtxt community, and leave your vote on your preferred proposals, which will be used to gauge the perceived benefits.

Also, the conversation is open to discuss implementation concerns or anything aimed at making twtxt better.

@prologic@twtxt.net Gemini has an answer for you:

This is a conversation thread from a twtxt network, detailing a user’s (movq) frustration with the Mastodon “export data” feature and their consideration of self-hosting a fediverse alternative. Here’s a summary:

• movq’s initial issue:
  
  • movq is concerned about the volatility of their data on their current Mastodon instance due to a broken “export data” feature.
    
  • They contacted the admins, but the issue remains unresolved.
    
  • This led them to contemplate self-hosting.
    
• Alternative fediverse software suggestions:
  
  • kat suggests gotosocial as a lightweight alternative to Mastodon.
    
  • movq agrees, and also mentions snac as a potential option.
    
• movq’s change of heart:
  
  • movq ultimately decides that self-hosting any fediverse software, besides twtxt, is too much effort.
    
• Resolution and compromise:
  
  • The Mastodon admins attribute the export failure to the size of movq’s account.
    
  • movq decides to set their Mastodon account to auto-delete posts after approximately 180 days to manage data size.
    
  • Movq also mentions that they use auto-expiring links on twtxt to reduce data storage.

@eapl.me@eapl.me Cool!

Proposal 3 (https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/twtxt.dev/issues/18#issuecomment-19215) has the “advantage”, that you do not have to “mention” the original author if the thread slightly diverges. It seems to be a thing here that conversations are typically very flat instead of trees. Hence, and despite being a tree hugger, I voted for 3 being my favorite one, then 2, 1 and finally 4.

All proposals still need more work to clarify the details and edge cases in my opinion before they can be implemented.

@bender@twtxt.net Yeah, as you mentioned in the other thread, @andros@twtxt.andros.dev’s hashes appear to be not quite right. 🤔

Hi! For anyone following the Request for Comments on an improved syntax for replies and threads, I’ve made a comparative spreadsheet with the 4 proposals so far. It shows a syntax example, and top pros and cons I’ve found:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KOUqJ2rNl_jZ4KBVTsR-4QmG1zAdKNo7QXJS1uogQVo/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Feel free to propose another collaborative platform (for those without a G account), and also share your comments and analysis in the spreadsheet or in Gitea.

well (insert stubborn emoji here) 😛, word blog comes from weblog, and microblogging could derivate from ‘smaller weblog’. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/Microblogging

I’d differentiate it from sharing status updates as it was done with ‘finger’ or even a BBS. For example, being able to reply; create new threads and sharing them on a URL is something we could expect from ‘Twitter’, the most popular microbloging model (citation needed)

I like to discuss it, since conversations usually are improved if we sync on what we understand for the same words.

One of the biggest gripes of the community with the way the threading model currently works with Twtxt v1.2 (https://twtxt.dev) is this notion of:

What is this hash?
What does it refer to?

Idea: Why can’t we all agree to implement a simple URI scheme where we host our Twtxt feeds?

That is, if you host your feed at https://example.com/twtxt.txt – Why can’t or could you not also host various JSON files (let’s agree on the spec of course) at https://example.com/twt/<hash> ? 🤔

That way we solve this problem in a truly decentralised way, rather than every relying on yarnd pods alone.

Hi everyone,
I’ve drafted a Request for Comments (RFC) to improve how threads work in twtxt:
https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/twtxt.dev/issues/18

I’d love your feedback! Please share your thoughts on anything that could be better explained, check if the proposed dates work for everyone, and I invite you to join the discussion…

I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

• New feature: View and interact with threads.
  
• Optimisation of ordering for long feeds.
  
• Minor fixes.
  

In the next version you will be able to see all your mentions.

Enjoy!

#emacs #twtxt #twtxtel

Video

a few async ideas for later

The editing process needs a lot of consideration and compromises.

From one side, editing and deleting it’s necessary IMO. People will do it anyway, and personally I like to edit my texts, so I’d put some effort on make it work.
Should we keep a history of edits? Should we hash every edit to avoid abuse? Should we mark internally a twt as deleted, but keeping the replies?

I think that’s part of a more complete ‘thread’ extension, although I’d say it’s worth to agree on something reflecting the real usage in the wild, along with what people usually do on other platforms.

Hey everyone!

About the idea of improving the “thread” extension, what if we set aside March 2025 to gather proposals and thoughts from everyone? We could then vote on them at the end of the month to see if the change and migration are worth it.

The voting could include client maintainers (and maybe even users too). That way, we get a good mix of perspectives before taking a decision in a decent timelapse.

What do you think? If this sounds good, we can start agreeing on this. Let me know your thoughts!

@bmallred@staystrong.run Any edit automatically changes the twt hash, because the hash is built over the hash URL, message timestamp and message text. https://twtxt.dev/exts/twt-hash.html So, it is only a problem, if somebody replied to your original message with the old hash. The original message suddenly doesn’t exist anymore and the reply becomes detached, orphaned, whatever you wanna call it. Threading doesn’t break, though, if nobody replied to your message.

I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

• Markdown to Org mode (you need to install Pandoc).
  
• Centred column.
  
• Added new logo.
  
• Added text helper.
  

The new version I will try to finish the visual thread. You still can’t see the thread yet.

Video

Discussion Thread #9 - Chat & Discuss Anything About Cats! ⌘ Read more

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev hmmm… pretty strange, isn’t it? replaying to threads worked perfectly, I’ve only had that problem trying to replay to a twt that was part of a thread.

As an example, this one is a Fork-Replay from Jenny. My next twt will be a replay to this exact twt but from twtxt-el as a test.
Then I’will file an issue if it doesn’t behave the way it’s supposed to. Cheers!

I don’t think so, at least the tests I did passed. If you’re pretty sure it’s a bug, please create an issue in the repository with the specific case and I’ll investigate it.
There are 2 buttons to make replicas, one makes a replica in the thread where the twt is located (this is the one that should be used the most, as it serves a thread), the other creates a replica to a specific twt.
I’ll let you know a bit about the status: I’m just now implementing the thread screen. There you can be sure where you are. It’s a bit confusing right now, sorry. I think the client is still in alpha. When I’ve finished what I’m doing, and the direct message system, I’ll freeze development and focus on creating more tests, looking for bugs and making small visual adjustments.

@eapl.me@eapl.me I like this idea. Another option would be to show a limited number of posts, with an option to see the omitted ones by user. Either way, I wonder how well that works with threading.

ESP32-H2 Thread/Zigbee Gateway Module for Low-Power Wireless Communication
The ESP32-H2 Thread/Zigbee Gateway Module is a stackable development module designed for the M5 series hosts. It is based on the ESP32-H2-MINI-1 and supports Zigbee, Thread, and Matter. The module includes IEEE 802.15.4 wireless connectivity, making it capable of building Matter over Thread endpoint devices and supporting communication between different ecosystems.   The module features […] ⌘ Read more

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Whether in the office or at home, I get nothing done. ;-) Well, while this is almost true, I actually tried to respond to the other thread I started myself, but starting the editor it switched immediately to this one. Any idea why this happens?

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org The one in question is more like the javascript version for unwrapping errors when accessing methods.

 const value = some?.deeply?.nested?.object?.value

but for handling errors returned by methods. So if you wanted to chain a bunch of function calls together and if any error return immediately. It would be something like this:

b:= SomeAPIWithErrorsInAllCalls()
b.DoThing1() ?
b.DoThing2() ?

// Though its not in the threads I assume one could do like this to chain.
b.Chain1()?.Chain2()?.End()?

I am however infavor of having a sort of ternary ? in go.

PS. @prologic@twtxt.net for some reason this is eating my response without throwing an error :( I assume it has something to do with the CSRF. Can i not have multiple tabs open with yarn?

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org The one in question is more like the javascript version for unwrapping errors when accessing methods.

 const value = some?.deeply?.nested?.object?.value

but for handling errors returned by methods. So if you wanted to chain a bunch of function calls together and if any error return immediately. It would be something like this:

b:= SomeAPIWithErrorsInAllCalls()
b.DoThing1() ?
b.DoThing2() ?

// Though its not in the threads I assume one could do like this to chain.
b.Chain1()?.Chain2()?.End()?

I am however infavor of having a sort of ternary ? in go.

PS. @prologic@twtxt.net for some reason this is eating my response without throwing an error :( I assume it has something to do with the CSRF. Can i not have multiple tabs open with yarn?

@prologic@twtxt.net @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org First, please leave me your comments on the repository! Even if it’s just to give your opinion on what shouldn’t be included. The more variety, the better.

Second, I’m going to try to do tests with Elliptic keys and base64. Thanks for the advice @eapl@eapl.me

Finally, I’d like to give my opinion. Secure direct messages are a feature that ActivityPub and Mastodon don’t have, to give an example. By including it as an extension, we’re already taking a significant leap forward from the competition. Does it make sense to include it in a public feed? In fact, we’re already doing that. When we reply to a user, mentioning them at the beginning of the message, it’s already a direct message. The message is within a thread, perhaps breaking the conversation. Direct messages would help isolate conversations between 2 users, as well as keeping a thread cleaner and maintaining privacy. I insist, it’s optional, it doesn’t break compatibility with any client and implementing it isn’t complex. If you don’t like it, you’re free to not use it. If you don’t have a public key, no one can send you direct messages.

@movq, @prologic@twtxt.net when navigating to a Yarn. If the head twt is missing then the whole thread is not accessible. It only returns an error. so i have no way to view any of the replies within the thread other than the end twt.

@movq, @prologic@twtxt.net when navigating to a Yarn. If the head twt is missing then the whole thread is not accessible. It only returns an error. so i have no way to view any of the replies within the thread other than the end twt.

Thank you @prologic@twtxt.net , I’m pleased to be a little “thread” in the ball of yarn (Twtxt).

although I agree that it helps, I don’t see completely correct to leave the nick definition to the source .txt. It could be wrong from the start or outdated with the time.

I’d rather prefer to get it from the mentioned .txt nick metadata (could be cached for performance).
So my vote would to make it mandatory to follow @<name url> but only using that name/nick if the URL doesn’t contain another nick.
A main advantage is that when the destination URL changes the nick, it’ll be automagically updated in the thread view (as happens with some other microblogging platforms, following the Jakob’s Law)

good morning yarn friends. we need a funny name for yarn posters. what’s something that fits the yarn theme…. i mean we quite literally have threads here. yarn threads. how epic is that. now us posters need a funny name too.

@doesnmppsflt@doesnm.p.psf.lt Not sure which bug you’re referring to. 🤔 (Did I forget?)

Those long IDs like (#113797927355322708) are simply part of that feed. Looks like the author just dumps ActivityPub IDs into twtxt. I think this used to work in the past, but the corresponding spec (https://twtxt.dev/exts/hash-tag.html) has been deprecated and jenny doesn’t support – actually, jenny never supported that.

jenny can only group threads by exactly one criterium (because it writes a Message-ID into the mail file) and that’s the regular twt hash. So, anything else, like people doing “#CoolTopic”, isn’t possible.

This is the first screenshot, a simple timeline I’m using to check the fields. Now I’m working on some details: avatar cache, relative dates, simple thread, etc.

Image

Social media is in a worrying state. TikTok in the hands of autocratic China, X (formerly Twitter) in the hands of Elon Musk, who gets crazier every day and hangs out too much with Donald Trump (and recommends a fascist party in Germany), and now Mark Zuckerberg with Meta (Facebook, Instagram, Threads) is also joining the group of friends around Trump and removing fact checks in the name of “free speech”. What could possibly go wrong? ⌘ Read more

@prologic@twtxt.net this is epic… you’ve made a great platform!!! screw big tech we got literal threads here. X, The Everything App, wishes it had literal yarn threads smh my head. also twtxt is so cool like i love that yarn is a frontend for it but also its own thing. all plaintext… coolest shit ever

I like the cleaness and indiewebness of using just domains for handles/shorthands similar to blusky, but the situations with more users on the same domain and that people in the fediverse (threads too?) are already familiar with the syntax speaks for webfinger. And since we already got support for webfinger in both yarnd and timeline it makes sense to stick with it.

anon1337 proposes bounty for haveno-ts Dart port
anon13371 has proposed a bounty2 for porting the Haveno TypeScript Library 3 to Dart:

Total Bounty: 0 XMR (to date)

No specific details (requirements/deliverables) were provided for this bounty.

To start working on the task yourself, you should make your intentions public by posting a comment in the bounty’s thread.

To increase the bounty you can transfer some XMR to the address posted by the … ⌘ Read more

b4n6_b4n6 proposes bounties for Stack Wallet bug fixes
b4n6_b4n61 has proposed bounties2’3 for fixing two recently reported Stack Wallet4 issues5:

#1 Add checksum check for mnemonic seed
Total Bounty: 0.5 XMR (to date)

#2 Diagnose and fix linux crash
Total Bounty: 0.5 XMR (to date)

To start working on the tasks yourself, you should make your intentions public by posting a comment in the bounty threads.

To increase the bounties you can … ⌘ Read more

Coin-sized ESP32-H2-WROOM-07 RISC-V Module with BLE, Thread, and Zigbee Support for $2.13
The ESP32-H2-WROOM-07 is a compact module featuring a RISC-V single-core 32-bit microprocessor and support for Bluetooth Low Energy. It can be configured with up to 4 MB of flash memory and is designed for applications such as smart home systems, industrial automation, and consumer electronics. Measuring just 8.5 × 12.7 × 2.6 mm, the ESP32-H2-WROOM-07 […] ⌘ Read more

Gingeropolous submits CCS proposal to upgrade ‘Monero Research Computing’ cluster
Gingeropolous1 has submitted a new CCS proposal2 looking to upgrade their Monero Research Computing cluster by installing 1TB of RAM3 to a new Epyc server:

This proposal is for funds for me to purchase 1 TB of ram to install in a new 2x 7h12 server (256 threads!) so monero researchers can stop fiddling with memory constraints when working or waiting for … ⌘ Read more

Apple Consolidating Vision Pro Demo Areas in Stores Amid Rumors of Slowing Sales and Reduced Production
Apple is planning to consolidate the retail space dedicated to the Apple Vision Pro headset in some of its store locations, Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman said today.

![](https://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2024/01/Apple-Vision-Pro-Du … ⌘ Read more

XMRig v6.22.2 released
XMRig 1 version 6.22.22 has been released with a few bug fixes.

Fixed corrupted API output in some rare conditions.
Fixed number of threads on the new Intel Core Ultra CPUs.

Verify the SHA256 sums with xmrig3’s GPG key4 (ID: 446A53638BE94409) before using the software.

Consult the README.md5 file for more information about XMRig and transfer Monero to the project’s donation address6 if you want to support the … ⌘ Read more

XMRig v6.22.1 released with bug fixes, tweaks
XMRig 1 version 6.22.12 has been released with several bug fixes and improvements.

#3531 Always reset nonce on RandomX dataset change.
#3534 Fixed threads auto-config on Zen5.
#3535 RandomX: tweaks for Zen5.
#3539 Added Zen5 to randomx_boost.sh.
#3540 Detect AMD engineering samples in randomx_boost.sh.

Verify the SHA256 sums with xmrig3’s GPG key4 (ID: 446A53638BE94409) before using the software.

Consult … ⌘ Read more

ESP32-C5-DevKitC-1 with 240MHz RISC-V Processor, Zigbee, and Thread Connectivity
The ESP32-C5-DevKitC-1 is another upcoming entry-level development board designed for IoT applications, featuring the ESP32-C5-WROOM-1 module. This board supports key wireless protocols, including Wi-Fi 6 (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz), Bluetooth LE 5, Zigbee, and Thread. The ESP32-C5-WROOM-1 module is equipped with a 32-bit RISC-V single-core processor running at 240 MHz along with 384 KB […] ⌘ Read more

I share I did write up an algorithm for it at some point I think it is lost in a git comment someplace. I’ll put together a pseudo/go code this week.

Super simple:

Making a reply:

1. If yarn has one use that. (Maybe do collision check?)
   
2. Make hash of twt raw no truncation.
   
3. Check local cache for shortest without collision
   
   • in SQL: select len(subject) where head_full_hash like subject || '%'
     

Threading:

1. Get full hash of head twt
   
2. Search for twts
   
   • in SQL: head_full_hash like subject || '%' and created_on > head_timestamp
     

The assumption being replies will be for the most recent head. If replying to an older one it will use a longer hash.

I share I did write up an algorithm for it at some point I think it is lost in a git comment someplace. I’ll put together a pseudo/go code this week.

Super simple:

Making a reply:

1. If yarn has one use that. (Maybe do collision check?)
   
2. Make hash of twt raw no truncation.
   
3. Check local cache for shortest without collision
   
   • in SQL: select len(subject) where head_full_hash like subject || '%'
     

Threading:

1. Get full hash of head twt
   
2. Search for twts
   
   • in SQL: head_full_hash like subject || '%' and created_on > head_timestamp
     

The assumption being replies will be for the most recent head. If replying to an older one it will use a longer hash.

I mean sure if i want to run it over on my tooth brush why not use something that is accessible everywhere like md5? crc32? It was chosen a long while back and the only benefit in changing now is “i cant find an implementation for x” when the down side is it breaks all existing threads. so…

I mean sure if i want to run it over on my tooth brush why not use something that is accessible everywhere like md5? crc32? It was chosen a long while back and the only benefit in changing now is “i cant find an implementation for x” when the down side is it breaks all existing threads. so…

Oh boy, I’m looking for trapezoidal (like ACME thread) screws and nuts in left hand form. The rods are already expensive, but nuts feel like a total ripoff. A hex nut for Tr20x2 being 30mm long and 30mm in “diameter” costs me 22 bucks! O_o Just a single one, made of regular steel. A meter of rod is 21€. The more common Tr20x4 hex nut is just 7€ and the rod 17€, but 4mm pitch is a bit much for a leadscrew for semi-precision work I reckon.

Well, maybe I just use metric threads. I will sleep on this.

I mean thread command but bash escapes quoted as command…

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt twt probably isn’t the best client I’m afraid. It doesn’t really cache twts by their key (hash) to display threads properly. Jenny however does 👌

@prologic@twtxt.net YES James, it should be up to the client to deal with changes like edits and deletions. And putting this load on the clients, location-addressing with make this a lot easier since what is says it: Look in this file at this timestamp, did anything change or went missing? (And then threading will not break;)

@bender@twtxt.net I am also in camp no edit signals. deletes only breaks the head of a thread. all the replies are unaffected.

@bender@twtxt.net I am also in camp no edit signals. deletes only breaks the head of a thread. all the replies are unaffected.

@bender@twtxt.net Re that broken thread (#bqor23a). Its the same one. My pod doesn’t have the Root Twt: https://twtxt.net/twt/bqor23a => 404 Not Found.

How in the hell did you even reply to this in the first place?

@sorenpeter@darch.dk Points 2 & 3 aren’t really applicable here in the discussion of the threading model really I’m afraid. WebMentions is completely orthogonal to the discussion. Further, no-one that uses Twtxt really uses WebMentions, whilst yarnd supports the use of WebMentions, it’s very rarely used in practise (if ever) – In fact I should just drop the feature entirely.

The use of WebSub OTOH is far more useful and is used by every single yarnd pod everywhere (no that there’s that many around these days) to subscribe to feed updates in ~near real-time without having the poll constantly.

#fzf is the new emacs: a tool with a simple purpose that has evolved to include an #email client. https://sr.ht/~rakoo/omail/

I’m being a little silly, of course. fzf doesn’t actually check your email, but it appears to be basically the whole user interface for that mail program, with #mblaze wrangling the emails.

I’ve been thinking about how I handle my email, and am tempted to make something similar. (When I originally saw this linked the author was presenting it as an example tweaked to their own needs, encouraging people to make their own.)

This approach could surely also be combined with #jenny, taking the place of (neo)mutt. For example mblaze’s mthread tool presents a threaded discussion with indentation.

@prologic@twtxt.net Thanks for writing that up!

I hope it can remain a living document (or sequence of draft revisions) for a good long time while we figure out how this stuff works in practice.

I am not sure how I feel about all this being done at once, vs. letting conventions arise.

For example, even today I could reply to twt abc1234 with “(#abc1234) Edit: …” and I think all you humans would understand it as an edit to (#abc1234). Maybe eventually it would become a common enough convention that clients would start to support it explicitly.

Similarly we could just start using 11-digit hashes. We should iron out whether it’s sha256 or whatever but there’s no need get all the other stuff right at the same time.

I have similar thoughts about how some users could try out location-based replies in a backward-compatible way (append the replyto: stuff after the legacy (#hash) style).

However I recognize that I’m not the one implementing this stuff, and it’s less work to just have everything determined up front.

Misc comments (I haven’t read the whole thing):

• Did you mean to make hashes hexadecimal? You lose 11 bits that way compared to base32. I’d suggest gaining 11 bits with base64 instead.

• “Clients MUST preserve the original hash” — do you mean they MUST preserve the original twt?

• Thanks for phrasing the bit about deletions so neutrally.

• I don’t like the MUST in “Clients MUST follow the chain of reply-to references…”. If someone writes a client as a 40-line shell script that requires the user to piece together the threading themselves, IMO we shouldn’t declare the client non-conforming just because they didn’t get to all the bells and whistles.

• Similarly I don’t like the MUST for user agents. For one thing, you might want to fetch a feed without revealing your identty. Also, it raises the bar for a minimal implementation (I’m again thinking again of the 40-line shell script).

• For “who follows” lists: why must the long, random tokens be only valid for a limited time? Do you have a scenario in mind where they could leak?

• Why can’t feeds be served over HTTP/1.0? Again, thinking about simple software. I recently tried implementing HTTP/1.1 and it wasn’t too bad, but 1.0 would have been slightly simpler.

• Why get into the nitty-gritty about caching headers? This seems like generic advice for HTTP servers and clients.

• I’m a little sad about other protocols being not recommended.

• I don’t know how I feel about including markdown. I don’t mind too much that yarn users emit twts full of markdown, but I’m more of a plain text kind of person. Also it adds to the length. I wonder if putting a separate document would make more sense; that would also help with the length.

I’m still more in favor of (replyto:…). It’s easier to implement and the whole edits-breaking-threads thing resolves itself in a “natural” way without the need to add stuff to the protocol.

I’d love to try this out in practice to see how well it performs. 🤔 It’s all very theoretical at the moment.

@falsifian@www.falsifian.org comments on the feeds as in nick, url, follow, that kind of thing? If that, then not interested at all. I envision an archive that would allow searching, and potentially browsing threads on a nice, neat interface. You will have to think, though, on other things. Like, what to do with images? Yarn allows users to upload images, but also embed it in twtxts from other sources (hotlinking, actually).

@prologic@twtxt.net I know the role of the current hash is to allow referencing (replies and, thus, threads), and it also represents a “unique” way to verify a twtxt hasn’t been tampered with. Is that second so important, if we are trying to allow edits? I know if feels good to be able to verify, but in reality, how often one does it?

@prologic@twtxt.net how about hashing a combination of nick/timestamp, or url/timestamp only, and not the twtxt content? On edit those will not change, so no breaking of threads. I know, I know, just adding noise here. :-P

@prologic@twtxt.net the basic idea was to stem the hash.. so you have a hash abcdef0123456789... any sub string of that hash after the first 6 will match. so abcdef, abcdef012, abcdef0123456 all match the same. on the case of a collision i think we decided on matching the newest since we archive off older threads anyway. the third rule was about growing the minimum hash size after some threshold of collisions were detected.

@prologic@twtxt.net the basic idea was to stem the hash.. so you have a hash abcdef0123456789... any sub string of that hash after the first 6 will match. so abcdef, abcdef012, abcdef0123456 all match the same. on the case of a collision i think we decided on matching the newest since we archive off older threads anyway. the third rule was about growing the minimum hash size after some threshold of collisions were detected.

@sorenpeter@darch.dk hmm, how does your client handles “a little editing”? I am sure threads would break just as well. 😉

@movq@www.uninformativ.de going a little sideways on this, “*If twtxt/Yarn was to grow bigger, then this would become a concern again. But even Mastodon allows editing, so how much of a problem can it really be? 😅*”, wouldn’t it preparing for a potential (even if very, very, veeeeery remote) growth be a good thing? Mastodon signs all messages, keeps a history of edits, and it doesn’t break threads. It isn’t a problem there.😉 It is here.

I think keeping hashes is a must. If anything for that “feels good” feeling.

Regarding jenny development: There have been enough changes in the last few weeks, imo. I want to let things settle for a while (potential bugfixes aside) and then I’m going to cut a new release.

And I guess the release after that is going to include all the threading/hashing stuff – if we can decide on one of the proposals. 😂

@quark@ferengi.one Oh, sure, it would be nice if edits didn’t break threads. I was just pondering the circumstances under which I get annoyed about data being irrecoverably deleted or otherwise lost.

@quark@ferengi.one I don’t really mind if the twt gets edited before I even fetch it. I think it’s the idea of my computer discarding old versions it’s fetched, especially if it’s shown them to me, that bugs me.

But I do like @movq@www.uninformativ.de’s suggestion on this thread that feeds could contain both the original and the edited twt. I guess it would be up to the author.

@prologic@twtxt.net sorry but nope. Neither jenny, nor yarnd supports it at all. This was treated as a thread because I picked one of @falsifian@www.falsifian.org’s twtxts (with the “old subject”), and replied to it (hence starting the thread).

@prologic@twtxt.net based on @falsifian@www.falsifian.org’s findings, I don’t believe this is quite accurate.

“yarnd(_at least_) doesn't support creating such a custom TwtSubject, but it will reply and respect and thread one if one was constructed."

Hmm, but yarnd also isn’t showing these twts as being part of a thread. @prologic@twtxt.net you said yarnd respects customs subjects. Shouldn’t these twts count as having a custom subject, and get threaded together?

@sorenpeter@darch.dk I like this idea. Just for fun, I’m using a variant in this twt. (Also because I’m curious how it non-hash subjects appear in jenny and yarn.)

URLs can contain commas so I suggest a different character to separate the url from the date. Is this twt I’ve used space (also after “replyto”, for symmetry).

I think this solves:

• Changing feed identities: although @mckinley@twtxt.net points out URLs can change, I think this syntax should be okay as long as the feed at that URL can be fetched, and as long as the current canonical URL for the feed lists this one as an alternate.
  
• editing, if you don’t care about message integrity
  
• finding the root of a thread, if you’re not following the author
  

An optional hash could be added if message integrity is desired. (E.g. if you don’t trust the feed author not to make a misleading edit.) Other recent suggestions about how to deal with edits and hashes might be applicable then.

People publishing multiple twts per second should include sub-second precision in their timestamps. As you suggested, the timestamp could just be copied verbatim.

Just that yarnd (at least) doesn’t support creating such a custom TwtSubject, but it will reply and respect and thread one if one was constructed.