@movq@www.uninformativ.de weird, I don’t see their twtxt on twtxt.net, but I can see it at their feed.

@shinyoukai@yume.laidback.moe 🤣

@movq@www.uninformativ.de :-D LOL!

@klaxzy@klaxzy.net Hahaha, that’s funny! :-D

@prologic@twtxt.net Reminds me to have another look at LSP. Last time I checked, it was super messy in Vim. 🤔

@shinyoukai@yume.laidback.moe Yeah, I avoided that issue as well. I moved everything on the website except for the twtxt stuff.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org The thing is that’s hard to avoid if TYPE_CHECKING, but documentation tools such as pdoc don’t support that … so it’s either type hints or API docs. 🤷

I hope I can eventually find a way out of this mess …

@javivf@adn.org.es Oh! Thanks, should be fixed now. 😊

@klaxzy@klaxzy.net really?! 🤔 That’s hilseriosu 🤣

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I barely noticed 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yeah…

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Hehe. :-) This steep footpath connects a hiking parking lot outside the village and the edge of the village in a fairly straight line. Garden owners are allowed to drive their vehicles down from the village to their lots on this pathway and up again. These two poles are placed about a third up from the botton on a short, comparatively flat section to stop people from taking this shortcut to get down to the country road. Said road goes through the village but there are hairpins getting up and down. The road markings have been added recentlyish. I suspect to warn shooting down cyclists of the danger ahead. I haven’t seen something like this anywhere else either. :-)

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org All that short brown grass, almost looks like Scotland. 🤔 (I’ve never been there. 😅)

What the heck is 06.jpg?

@prologic@twtxt.net Changed the domain of my website (except for twtxt).

@movq@www.uninformativ.de What worked? 😆

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org (At least I didn’t break all the links again. In late 2015, I switched from a PHP backend to the current static website, which changed just about everything. I hope doing a disruptive change like this one every 10 years is tolerable. 😅)

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Oh, right. Forgot about that. 🫤

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I still think that your original domain is cool as fuck! :-)

I didn’t change any subscriptions, and I still see your messages, so whatever you did worked fine. :-)

@prologic@twtxt.net I think I found an easy way to redirect anything except the twtxt stuff. That’s probably better. 🤔

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Right 😅

So, are you guys up for an experiment?

I’m really not happy with the domain “uninformativ.de” anymore. I’m going to switch to “movq.de” soon (or maybe something else if I get another fancy idea).

If I keep the url = field in my twtxt file, nothing should break, right? Right? 🤣

@prologic@twtxt.net Yup. 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de that’s just 🎁 🕯️.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de infinite interaction!

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Thanks!

@bender@twtxt.net gemini-cli, something something https://github.com/google-gemini/gemini-cli/issues/16723

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Just 323 pages! That’s cool, let’s have a look. :-)

@prologic@twtxt.net Tada! Maybe one day I might look into this lowlevel stuff, too. But I can’t see it on the horizon yet. Happy hacking! :-)

@prologic@twtxt.net I’d love to take a look at the code. 😅

I’m kind of curious to know how much Assembly I need vs. How much of a microkernel can I build purely in Mu (µ)? 🤔

Can’t really answer that, because I only made a working kernel for 16-bit real mode yet. That is 99% C, though, only syscall entry points are Assembly. (The OpenWatcom compiler provides C wrappers for triggering software interrupts, which makes things easier.)

But in long mode? No idea yet. 😅 At least changing the page tables will require a tiny little bit of Assembly.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yes!

Did you do the whole dance with BIOS boot and everything?

Yup! Fark’n LBA shit and all, loading up the GDT, TSS and switching to x86_64 long mode 🤣

@prologic@twtxt.net Damn, nice! I know exactly what you mean – the output/screenshot looks trivial, but there’s so much going on behind the scenes. 😃

Did you do the whole dance with BIOS boot and everything?

Whohoo! 🥳 You have no idea how great a feeling this is! This includes the Mu stdlib and runtime as well, not just some simple stupid program, this means a significant portion of the runtime and stdlib “just works”™ 🤣

Btw @movq@www.uninformativ.de you’ve inspired me to try and have a good ‘ol crack at writing a bootloader, stage1 and customer microkernel (µKernel) that will eventually load up a Mu (µ) program and run it! 🤣 I will teach Mu (µ) to have a ./bin/mu -B -o ... -p muos/amd64 ... target.

@eldersnake@we.loveprivacy.club haha! I read as Golang the first time too. It is just the way our minds work. :-P

@kiwu@twtxt.net problems are aplenty everywhere, Kiwu. As we all know, ups and downs flare often times when we least expect them. When downs come, don’t despair: nothing lasts forever, and ups will soon come, one way or another. Pa’lante!

@kiwu@twtxt.net me too, me too! Thank you for sharing! 🫶

@kiwu@twtxt.net Always stay positive! 🙏

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I guess so, yes. I read something about that in some ticket. In v3 the terminfo support was dropped, though. I’m still on v2 at the moment.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org … I sure hope that they generate these files from the general terminfo database instead of maintaining their own DB. 😳

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Woah, that’s really amazing progress! :-)

@bender@twtxt.net I’m already using it for tracktivity (meant for tracking activities and events, like weather, food consumption, stuff like that), which is basically a somewhat-fancy CSV editor:

https://movq.de/v/f26eb836ee/s.png

I have a couple of other projects where I could use it, because they are plain curses at the moment. Like, one of them has an “edit box”, but you can’t enter Unicode, because it was too complicated. That would benefit from the framework.

Either way, it’s the most satisfying project in a long time and I’m learning a ton of stuff.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yeah, I know that terminals are super weird and messy. In both the KDE Konsole (identifying itself as TERM=xterm-256color) and xterm (TERM=xterm) it just works flawlessly. My urxvt (TERM=rxvt-unicode-256color) just doesn’t. I also tried messing with TERM in urxvt, but no luck so far.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Unix terminals are quite limited in that regard. 🫤 You know how Ctrl works? The XOR 0x40 thing? And Alt doesn’t exist at all, it’s just a prefixed ESC byte.

I was surprised to see curses knowing about “Shift+Tab”, wondering how that is supposed to work. Well, it’s an escape sequence, of course (depending on the terminal, of course).

@movq@www.uninformativ.de that some lovely development from the initial one. Curious to know where this will lead!

@prologic@twtxt.net Probably not, but thanks. 💚 It’ll get better.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Anything we can do? Lend a listening ear? 👂

@prologic@twtxt.net Work and the general state of (gestures broadly) everything.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de What’s up? hmm 🧐

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I figure that’s exactly what it is.

@bender@twtxt.net ICQ, yeah, I vaguely remember these times, despite I still know my ICQ number like it was yesterday. :-D

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe No, it’s not dead. The one account in question actually is on jabber.org.

@bender@twtxt.net I vaguely remember this, some leftover from the old-style hashtags? The (#foo) stuff? 🤔

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Never heard of either, tbh. 😳

@bender@twtxt.net it works fine under jenny. Maybe it is a bug on Yarn?

Yes, if a twtxt contains something like “(This is a test. Will this work as it should?)”, it will show empty on Yarn.

@prologic@twtxt.net it really is not blank. It reads:

2026-01-12T23:34:11+01:00	(you must be root)

@klaxzy@klaxzy.net nothing like a blank twt eh? 😅

@shinyoukai@yume.laidback.moe Jabber = XMPP.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Sorry, I meant the builtin module:

$ python3 -m pep8 file.py
/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/pep8.py:2123: UserWarning: 

pep8 has been renamed to pycodestyle (GitHub issue #466)
Use of the pep8 tool will be removed in a future release.
Please install and use `pycodestyle` instead.

  $ pip install pycodestyle
  $ pycodestyle ...

I can’t seem to remember the name pycodestyle for the life of me. Maybe that’s why I almost never use it.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

Pep8 is deprecated, I think

Hmm, I don’t think it is, this still says “Status: Active”: https://peps.python.org/pep-0008/ 🤔

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org I even got spam on ICQ, back when ICQ was a thing. I see spam as an innate thing. 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de @prologic@twtxt.net That’s what I like about Go, too. However, every now and then I really dislike the result, e.g. when removing spaces from a column layout. Doesn’t happen often, but when it does, I hate it.

I think I should have a look at Python formatters, too. Pep8 is deprecated, I think, it’s been some time that I looked at it.

@kiwu@twtxt.net what’s going on, Kiwu?

@kiwu@twtxt.net Oh? 🤔 What’s up? Can you share? Or just having a hrd time? 🤗

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Welcome to the dark side 🤣

@shinyoukai@yume.laidback.moe Hopefully, yes. Haven’t tried it yet.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I don’t think he is 🤔

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe mckinley is back? Where? 🤔

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe Whoohoo! That’s a start to cross-platform support 🤣

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Aha! Well, happy hacking. A tiling window manager seems to be good fun. :-)

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe No email has arrived here? 🤔

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe Okay I pushed a commit that hopefully fixes this. I hope!

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe Yes; however the interpreter is also platform dependent and relies on making raw syscalls. This is so the runtime semantics remain the same between the two execution modes.

I’ll see if I can add support for linux/amd64 and netbsd/amd64 for the VM at least.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org It’s not super comfortable, that’s right.

But these mouse events come with a caveat anyway:

ncurses uses the XM terminfo entry to enable mouse events, but it looks like this entry does not enable motion events for most terminal emulators. Reporting motion events is supported by, say, XTerm, xiate, st, or urxvt, it just isn’t activated by XM. This makes all this dragging stuff useless.

For the moment, I edited the terminfo entry for my terminal to include motion events. That can’t be a proper solution. I’m not sure yet if I’m supposed to send the appropriate sequence manually …

And the terminfo entries for tmux or screen don’t include XM at all. tmux itself supports the mouse, but I’m not sure yet how to make it pass on the events to the programs running inside of it (maybe that’s just not supported).

To make things worse, on the Linux VT (outside of X11 or Wayland), the whole thing works differently: You have to use good old gpm to get mouse events (gpm has been around forever, I already used this on SuSE Linux). ncurses does support this, but this is a build flag and Arch Linux doesn’t set this flag. So, at the moment, I’m running a custom build of ncurses as a quick hack. 😅 And this doesn’t report motion events either! Just clicks. (I don’t know if gpm itself can report motion events, I never used the library directly.)

tl;dr: The whole thing will probably be “keyboard first” and then the mouse stuff is a gimmick on top. As much as I’d like to, this isn’t going to be like TUI applications on DOS. I’ll use “Windows” for popups or a multi-window view (with the “WindowManager” being a tiny little tiling WM).

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe if you don’t show me the actual full stacktrace, I can’t fix the problem 😢

Mu (µ) is coming along really nicely 🤣 Few things left to do (in order):

• Finish the concurrency support.
  
• Add support for sockets
  
• Add support for linux/amd64
  
• Rewrite the heap allocator
  
• Rewrite Mu (µ) in well umm Mu (µ) 😅
  

Here’s a screenshot showing off the builtin help():

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe the whole bridge idea is a mistake done twice (I encouraged the first time, it was a mistake to do so). In this case, the “Babel Tower” works; there is no need to interact with “others”, let it be just twtxt.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Oh, I see. Unfortunately, there seems to be no box drawing character for a corner with a diagonal line. Indeed, this is probably the best you can do.

Is the single character enough to hit it comfortably with the mouse, though? Maybe one additional to the left and above could be something to think about. Not sure. Of course this complicates it a bit more. Personally, I like fullscreen windows, so I’m definitely the wrong guy to judge this or even comment on. :-)

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Ah, the lower right corner is different on purpose: It’s where you can click and drag to resize the window. https://movq.de/v/cbfc575ca6/vid-1767977198.mp4 Not sure how to make this easier to recognize. 🤔 (It’s the only corner where you can drag, btw.)

@bender@twtxt.net Seriously, if I ever get a CRT monitor again, I want it to be an amber one and then hook it up to some 8086. 😅 Only problem is that this stuff is expensive as hell now …

Feeling nostalgic, for 3D-ish old game sprites, so I made one of myself.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Very nice, it’s coming together!

Just in case you haven’t already noticed it, the right lower corner of the window in front was not updated when it received the focus. 8-) (In tt I also render focused text input fields with a doubly lined border, where unfocused ones have a single one.)

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe

Work kills the soul

Since most of the jobs that we do nowadays are simply meaningless: Yes. Work kills the soul.

@shinyoukai@neko.laidback.moe

Work kills the soul

it sure can! 🤣

@movq@www.uninformativ.de What’s Email?! 😂

@zvava@twtxt.net and the year of the Linux desktop, I swear! No more procrastination, this year is it.

@rrraksamam@twtxt.net down, boy! :-D

@kiwu@twtxt.net better now, with you around! 🙈

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org I’ll let you guys know when/if it’s ready to get published. 😅 There are still rough edges and, obviously, very few widgets. Most importantly, a list view and a table widget are missing. But my vacation is over now, so things will crawl to a halt.

@prologic@twtxt.net Yep! I like that this distillation metaphor makes it explicit: You have to go ahead and actually distill something. It doesn’t happen automatically. The metaphor acknowledges that this is work that needs to be done by someone.

@bender@twtxt.net They’re not completely impossible, but C makes it much easier to run into them. I think the key point is that in those “safe” languages, buffer overflows are caught and immediately crash the program (if not handled otherwise) instead of silently corrupting memory, not being noticed right away and maybe only later crashing at a different location, where it can be very hard to find the actual root cause. This is a big improvement in my book.

Some programmers are indeed horrible. I’m guilty myself. :-)

I like the article.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I quite like this part:

Many people write programs, but few stick with a program long enough to distill it.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yiha! Even autoscroll, very nice! The naming certainly drew inspiration from Urwid. I like it. Looking forward to eventually checking out its inner workings. :-)

@movq@www.uninformativ.de @prologic@twtxt.net @bender@twtxt.net Given the age, they must mean Kopernikus! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFS_Kopernikus

@movq@www.uninformativ.de :-D

@bender@twtxt.net I also went back to my duty today and fixed a problem I created right before vanishing into the holidays. Of course, I discovered more problems while fixing the one thing. Luckily, another public holiday tomorrow. :-)

During my time off, I was a very lazy rat. I planned on doing some woodworking again, but instead I started watching Itchy Boot’s Africa season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMvfS5mbsiI&list=PL8M9dV_BySaXNvQ_V1q4UU-DirPQlX0ZP

@prologic@twtxt.net Yup, it’s been a while since I played that. 😅 Hardly rememberd it, to be honest. And apparently I did everything wrong, because that monster just came along and trashed my city, no way to stop it. 🤪

@bender@twtxt.net No, I had my break/holiday earlier. I chose to work through, except the public holidays of course.

@bender@twtxt.net I am so prepared and ready for retirement. 🤣 (Not gonna happen for a while, though. If ever.)

@prologic@twtxt.net so, you were not giving time off during the end of year? The company you work for didn’t give a break?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de hear hear! If anything, holiday breaks help to validate the fact that we are prepared for retirement. At least, I am!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Ahh nice! It’s been several decades since I’ve played that! Probably 3 actually come to think of it 🤣