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In-reply-to » @prologic Is it possible to interact with twtxt.net from outside? For example, an search API

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev What do you mean by API? yarnd (which powers Yarn.social pods like twtxt.net) does have an API, however that API is designed for clients to interact with the pod and the user’s account and feed. e.g: there is a command-line client called yarnc and I used to maintain a mobile native app (using Flutter).

What use-case did you have in mind?

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(#gjl3gwq) @andros What do you mean by API? yarnd (which powers Yarn.social pods like twtxt.net) does have an API, however that API is desig …
@andros @twtxt.andros.dev What do you mean by API? yarnd ( which powers Yarn.social pods like twtxt.net) does have an API, however that API is designed for clients to interact with the pod and the user’s account and feed. e.g: there is a command-line client called yarnc and I used to maintain a mobile native app ( … ⌘ Read more

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In-reply-to » For Example:

Are we talking about profile view heading, heading of posts or inline mentions?

Image


In yarnd I recall there is a setting for changing the heading of posts, but not for the two others as of yet.
I like the hover option for inline mentions. For the other places some like how yarnd does it in two line or “ nick (domain.tld) ” could also work.

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In-reply-to » For Example:

I like the cleaness and indiewebness of using just domains for handles/shorthands similar to blusky, but the situations with more users on the same domain and that people in the fediverse (threads too?) are already familiar with the syntax speaks for webfinger. And since we already got support for webfinger in both yarnd and timeline it makes sense to stick with it.

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**(#ptp2n7a) > Why is my @ mention is all over the place?

Just the way yarnd (my client) behaves, which I’m also refactoring and improving the …**

Why is my @ mention is all over the place?

Just the way yarnd (my client) behaves, which I’m also refactoring and improving the way mentions are expanded and auto-completed. ⌘ Read more

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In-reply-to » I've been thinking of a few improvements for the next generation of twtxt spec, let me know if these are useful or interesting :) https://text.eapl.mx/a-few-ideas-for-a-next-twtxt-version

Righto, @eapl.me@eapl.me, ta for the writeup. Here we go. :-)

Metadata on individual twts are too much for me. I do like the simplicity of the current spec. But I understand where you’re coming from.

Numbering twts in a feed is basically the attempt of generating message IDs. It’s an interesting idea, but I reckon it is not even needed. I’d simply use location based addressing (feed URL + ‘#’ + timestamp) instead of content addressing. If one really wanted to, one could hash the feed URL and timestamp, but the raw form would actually improve disoverability and would not even require a richer client. But the majority of twtxt users in the last poll wanted to stick with content addressing.

yarnd actually sends If-Modified-Since request headers. Not only can I observe heaps of 304 responses for yarnds in my access log, but in Cache.FetchFeeds(…) we can actually see If-Modified-Since being deployed when the feed has been retrieved with a Last-Modified response header before: https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/src/commit/98eee5124ae425deb825fb5f8788a0773ec5bdd0/internal/cache.go#L1278

Turns out etags with If-None-Match are only supported when yarnd serves avatars (https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/src/commit/98eee5124ae425deb825fb5f8788a0773ec5bdd0/internal/handlers.go#L158) and media uploads (https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/src/commit/98eee5124ae425deb825fb5f8788a0773ec5bdd0/internal/media_handlers.go#L71). However, it ignores possible etags when fetching feeds.

I don’t understand how the discovery URLs should work to replace the User-Agent header in HTTP(S) requests. Do you mind to elaborate?

Different protocols are basically just a client thing.

I reckon it’s best to just avoid mixing several languages in one feed in the first place. Personally, I find it okay to occasionally write messages in other languages, but if that happens on a more regularly basis, I’d definitely create a different feed for other languages.

Isn’t the emoji thing “just” a client feature? So, feed do not even have to state any emojis. As a user I’d configure my client to use a certain symbol for feed ABC. Currently, I can do a similar thing in tt where I assign colors to feeds. On the other hand, what if a user wants to control what symbol should be displayed, similar to the feed’s nick? Hmm. But still, my terminal font doesn’t even render most of emojis. So, Unicode boxes everywhere. This makes me think it should actually be a only client feature.

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(#gctrz4q) > Alternatively, if you prefer yarnd to pretty-print all twts nicely, even ones from simpler clients, that’s fine too and you don�� …

Alternatively, if you prefer yarnd to pretty-print all twts nicely, even ones from simpler clients, that’s fine too and you don’t need to change anything. My ¼ -> ¼ thing is nothing more than a minor irritation which probably isn’t worth overthinking.

Yeah I’ve closed the PR, I just wanted to write it up and see what we all thought. Much easier to talk to a concrete spec proposal sometimes. … ⌘ Read more

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(#gctrz4q) > What’s wrong with my original suggestion of doing the transformation before the text hits the twtxt.txt file? @prologic, I think …

What’s wrong with my original suggestion of doing the transformation before the text hits the twtxt.txt file? @prologic, I think it would achieve what you are trying to achieve with this content-type thing: if someone writes ¼ on a yarnd instance or any other client that wants to do this, it would get transformed, and other clients simply wouldn’t do the transformation. Every client that sup … ⌘ Read more

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**(#gctrz4q) @falsifian Only that this rendering behavior comes from yarnd’s Markdown parser library that is used:

What has text/markdown go …**
@falsifian @www.falsifian.org Only that this rendering behavior comes from yarnd’s Markdown parser library that is used:

What has text/markdown got to do with this? I don’t think Markdown says anything about replacing ¼ with ¼, or other similar transformations. It’s not needed, because ¼ is already a … ⌘ Read more

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In-reply-to » @prologic I'm not a yarnd user, so it doesn't matter a whole lot to me, but FWIW I'm not especially keen on changing how I format my twts to work around yarnd's quirks.

@bender@twtxt.net @prologic@twtxt.net I’m not exactly asking yarnd to change. If you are okay with the way it displayed my twts, then by all means, leave it as is. I hope you won’t mind if I continue to write things like 1/4 to mean “first out of four”.

What has text/markdown got to do with this? I don’t think Markdown says anything about replacing 1/4 with ¼, or other similar transformations. It’s not needed, because ¼ is already a unicode character that can simply be directly inserted into the text file.

What’s wrong with my original suggestion of doing the transformation before the text hits the twtxt.txt file? @prologic@twtxt.net, I think it would achieve what you are trying to achieve with this content-type thing: if someone writes 1/4 on a yarnd instance or any other client that wants to do this, it would get transformed, and other clients simply wouldn’t do the transformation. Every client that supports displaying unicode characters, including Jenny, would then display ¼ as ¼.

Alternatively, if you prefer yarnd to pretty-print all twts nicely, even ones from simpler clients, that’s fine too and you don’t need to change anything. My 1/4 -> ¼ thing is nothing more than a minor irritation which probably isn’t worth overthinking.

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(#s7t3gya) @bender@bender The only changes I can foresee are really to yarnd. As no other client I’m aware of really cares aall that much. …
@bender The only changes I can foresee are really to yarnd. As no other client I’m aware of really cares aall that much. 🤣 It’s only in an attempt to solve this. No I’m not sure about this 🤣 ⌘ Read more

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In-reply-to » @bender True, I'm just not sure we can have it both way? 🤔 I can turn smartypants off, but I do seem to recall you wanted it on 🤣

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m not a yarnd user, so it doesn’t matter a whole lot to me, but FWIW I’m not especially keen on changing how I format my twts to work around yarnd’s quirks.

I wonder if this kind of postprocessing would fit better between composing (via yarnd’s UI) and publishing. So, if a yarnd user types ¼, it could get changed to ¼ in the twtxt.txt file for everyone to see, not just people reading through yarnd. But when I type ¼, meaning first out of four, as a non-yarnd user, the meaning wouldn’t get corrupted. I can always type ¼ directly if that’s what I really intend.

(This twt might be easier to understand if you read it without any transformations :-P)

Anyway, again, I’m not a yarnd user, so do what you will, just know you might not be seeing exactly what I meant.

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In-reply-to » @sorenpeter Points 2 & 3 aren't really applicable here in the discussion of the threading model really I'm afraid. WebMentions is completely orthogonal to the discussion. Further, no-one that uses Twtxt really uses WebMentions, whilst yarnd supports the use of WebMentions, it's very rarely used in practise (if ever) -- In fact I should just drop the feature entirely.

(#2024-09-24T12:34:31Z) WebMentions does would work if we agreed to implement it correctly. I never figured out how yarnd’s WebMentions work, so I decide to make my own, which I’m the only one using…

I had a look at WebSub, witch looks way more complex than WebMentions, and seem to need a lot more overhead. We don’t need near realtime. We just need a way to notify someone that someone they don’t know about mentioned or replied to their post.

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In-reply-to » Some more arguments for a local-based treading model over a content-based one:

There is also a ~5x increase cost in memory utilization for any implementations or implementors that use or wish to use in-memory storage (yarnd does for example) and equally a 5x increase in on-disk storage as well. This is based on the Twt Hash going from a 13 bytes (content-addressing) to 63 bytes (on average for location-based addressing). There is roughly a ~20-150% increase in the size of individual feeds as well that needs to be taken into consideration (on the average case).

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In-reply-to » Some more arguments for a local-based treading model over a content-based one:

@sorenpeter@darch.dk Points 2 & 3 aren’t really applicable here in the discussion of the threading model really I’m afraid. WebMentions is completely orthogonal to the discussion. Further, no-one that uses Twtxt really uses WebMentions, whilst yarnd supports the use of WebMentions, it’s very rarely used in practise (if ever) – In fact I should just drop the feature entirely.

The use of WebSub OTOH is far more useful and is used by every single yarnd pod everywhere (no that there’s that many around these days) to subscribe to feed updates in ~near real-time without having the poll constantly.

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In-reply-to » @movq @falsifian @prologic Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about and You've probably already read this: Everything you need to know about the “Right to be forgotten” coming straight out of the EU's GDPR Website itself. It outlines the specific circumstances under which the right to be forgotten applies as well as reasons that trump the one's right to erasure ...etc.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com This is one of the reasons why yarnd has a couple of settings with some sensible/sane defaults:

I could already imagine a couple of extreme cases where, somewhere, in this peaceful world one’s exercise of freedom of speech could get them in Real trouble (if not danger) if found out, it wouldn’t necessarily have to involve something to do with Law or legal authorities. So, If someone asks, and maybe fearing fearing for… let’s just say ‘Their well being’, would it heart if a pod just purged their content if it’s serving it publicly (maybe relay the info to other pods) and call it a day? It doesn’t have to be about some law/convention somewhere … 🤷 I know! Too extreme, but I’ve seen news of people who’d gone to jail or got their lives ruined for as little as a silly joke. And it doesn’t even have to be about any of this.

There are two settings:

$ ./yarnd --help 2>&1 | grep max-cache
      --max-cache-fetchers int        set maximum numnber of fetchers to use for feed cache updates (default 10)
  -I, --max-cache-items int           maximum cache items (per feed source) of cached twts in memory (default 150)
  -C, --max-cache-ttl duration        maximum cache ttl (time-to-live) of cached twts in memory (default 336h0m0s)

So yarnd pods by default are designed to only keep Twts around publicly visible on either the anonymous Frontpage or Discover View or your Timeline or the feed’s Timeline for up to 2 weeks with a maximum of 150 items, whichever get exceeded first. Any Twts over this are considered “old” and drop off the active cache.

It’s a feature that my old man @off_grid_living@twtxt.net was very strongly in support of, as was I back in the day of yarnd’s design (nothing particularly to do with Twtxt per se) that I’ve to this day stuck by – Even though there are some 😉 that have different views on this 🤣

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In-reply-to » @prologic I wouldn't want my client to honour delete requests. I like my computer's memory to be better than mine, not worse, so it would bug me if I remember seeing something and my computer can't find it.

@prologic@twtxt.net Do you have a link to some past discussion?

Would the GDPR would apply to a one-person client like jenny? I seriously hope not. If someone asks me to delete an email they sent me, I don’t think I have to honour that request, no matter how European they are.

I am really bothered by the idea that someone could force me to delete my private, personal record of my interactions with them. Would I have to delete my journal entries about them too if they asked?

Maybe a public-facing client like yarnd needs to consider this, but that also bothers me. I was actually thinking about making an Internet Archive style twtxt archiver, letting you explore past twts, including long-dead feeds, see edit histories, deleted twts, etc.

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Can I get someone like maybe @xuu@txt.sour.is or @abucci@anthony.buc.ci or even @eldersnake@we.loveprivacy.club – If you have some spare time – to test this yarnd PR that upgrades the Bitcask dependency for its internal database to v2? 🙏

VERY IMPORTANT If you do; Please Please Please backup your yarn.db database first! 😅 Heaven knows I don’t want to be responsible for fucking up a production database here or there 🤣

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In-reply-to » (replyto http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt 2024-09-15T12:50:17Z) Hmm, but yarnd also isn't showing these twts as being part of a thread. @prologic you said yarnd respects customs subjects. Shouldn't these twts count as having a custom subject, and get threaded together?

So yeah no, whilst it technically works, neither jenny nor yarnd support it very well. Only at a very basic level.

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In-reply-to » I guess I can configure neomutt to hide the feeds I don't care about.

@prologic@twtxt.net One of your twts begins with (#st3wsda): https://twtxt.net/twt/bot5z4q

Based on the twtxt.net web UI, it seems to be in reply to a twt by @cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org which begins “I’ve been sketching out…”.

But jenny thinks the hash of that twt is 6mdqxrq. At least, there’s a very twt in their feed with that hash that has the same text as appears on yarn.social (except with ‘ instead of ’).

Based on this, it appears jenny and yarnd disagree about the hash of the twt, or perhaps the twt was edited (though I can’t see any difference, assuming ’ vs ’ is just a rendering choice).

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In-reply-to » @movq Is there a good way to get jenny to do a one-off fetch of a feed, for when you want to fill in missing parts of a thread? I just added @slashdot to my private follow file just because @prologic keeps responding to the feed :-P and I want to know what he's commenting on even though I don't want to see every new slashdot twt.

@prologic@twtxt.net I believe you when you say registries as designed today do not crawl. But when I first read the spec, it conjured in my mind a search engine. Now I don’t know how things work out in practice, but just based on reading, I don’t see why it can’t be an API for a crawling search engine. (In fact I don’t see anything in the spec indicating registry servers shouldn’t crawl.)

(I also noticed that https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/registry.html recommends “The registries should sync each others user list by using the users endpoint”. If I understood that right, registering with one should be enough to appear on others, even if they don’t crawl.)

Does yarnd provide an API for finding twts? Is it similar?

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In-reply-to » @mckinley He's signed up three times now even though I keep deleting the account, which is enough for me to permaban this person. I don't technically want open registrations on my pod but up till now I've been too lazy to figure out how to turn them off and actually do that, and there hasn't been a pressing need. I may have to now.

@abucci@anthony.buc.ci Thank you for using Lyse’s Unofficial Yarnd Help Desk: https://lyse.isobeef.org/tmp/yarnd-disable-registrations.png

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There is a bug in yarnd that’s been around for awhile and is still present in the current version I’m running that lets a person hit a constructed URL like

YOUR_POD/external?nick=lovetocode999&uri=https://socialmphl.com/story19510368/doujin

and see a legitimate-looking page on YOUR_POD, with an HTTP code 200 (success). From that fake page you can even follow an external feed. Try it yourself, replacing “YOUR_POD” with the URL of any yarnd pod you know. Try following the feed.

I think URLs like this should return errors. They should not render HTML, nor produce legitimate-looking pages. This mechanism is ripe for DDoS attacks. My pod gets roughly 70,000 hits per day to URLs like this. Many are porn or other types of content I do not want. At this point, if it’s not fixed soon I am going to have to shut down my pod. @prologic@twtxt.net please have a look.

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In-reply-to » @movq Is there a good way to get jenny to do a one-off fetch of a feed, for when you want to fill in missing parts of a thread? I just added @slashdot to my private follow file just because @prologic keeps responding to the feed :-P and I want to know what he's commenting on even though I don't want to see every new slashdot twt.

@prologic@twtxt.net Yes, fetching the twt by hash from some service could be a good alternative, in case the twt I have does not @-mention the source. (Besides yarnd, maybe this should be part of the registry API? I don’t see fetch-by-hash in the registry API docs.)

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In-reply-to » I'm wrong! Both 404 and 410, among others, are considered dead feeds: https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/src/branch/main/internal/cache.go#L1343 Whatever that actually means.

@bender@twtxt.net I’m not a yarnd user, but automatically unfollowing on 404 doesn’t seem right. Besides @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org’s example, I could imagine just accidentally renaming my own twtxt file, or forgetting to push it when I point my DNS to a new web server. I’d rather not lose all my yarnd followers in a situation like that (and hopefully they feel the same).

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In-reply-to » @prologic hm, it seems to be full disk that's the issue, same problem with the avatar in tmp it seems that's mentioned earlier here. I deleted them now. I regained 33% space (9GB).

@prologic@twtxt.net I got it working, I reinstalled go under home (instead of where go wiki tells me to install it), and pointed to that, as well as the variables you mentioned, that enabled me to compile it. deleted the old yarnd , and made sure I run the new one.
Thanks for the help (as always :) ).

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In-reply-to » We also rented a cabin for 5 days, and did a lot of things..

@prologic@twtxt.net Ok, good to know. So the issue is the same ‘avatar in tmp’ issue filling up the disk. I did not check the dates on the avatars there, but it worked fined earlier yesterday, and was full today, so it seems to be the same issue mentioned earlier on here. I’ll keep an eye on it. I have not updated yarnd for a while, so I run v 0.15.1.

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In-reply-to » We also rented a cabin for 5 days, and did a lot of things..

@prologic@twtxt.net hm, okay, not sure what to do with it though. If I remember correct - I’ve just forwarded the subdomain to yarnd’s port - and that’s it.

This is the config:

`server {

server_name yarn.stigatle.no;
location / {
    proxy_set_header Host $host;
    proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000;
    proxy_redirect off;
}`

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Hmm…

Jun 19 23:31:38 yarn_init.sh[61567]: [yarnd] 2024/06/19 23:31:38 (127.0.0.1:40254) “POST /post HTTP/
1.0” 200 0 3.402208ms
[…]

Jun 19 23:31:39 yarn_init.sh[61567]: [yarnd] 2024/06/19 23:31:39 (127.0.0.1:40262) “GET /post HTTP/1.0” 404 729 123.474001ms

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In-reply-to » yarn should define its own federation protocol that extends the basic twtxt in ways that twtxt doesn't allow. it's time. and i've got ideas!

yarnd does not do auto discovery via webfinger though.. i cant put @username and have it fetch the feed url from webfinger. to fully make feeds portable. would also need to be able to use that for hashing.

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In-reply-to » yarn should define its own federation protocol that extends the basic twtxt in ways that twtxt doesn't allow. it's time. and i've got ideas!

yarnd does not do auto discovery via webfinger though.. i cant put @username and have it fetch the feed url from webfinger. to fully make feeds portable. would also need to be able to use that for hashing.

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In-reply-to » (#fytbg6a) What about using the blockquote format with > ?

I’m also more in favor of #reposts being human readable and writable. A client might implement a bottom that posts something simple like: #repost Look at this cool stuff, because bla bla [alt](url)

This will then make it possible to also “repost” stuff from other platforms/protocols.

The reader part of a client, can then render a preview of the link, which we talked about would be a nice (optional) feature to have in yarnd.

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In-reply-to » I've been thinking of how to notify someone else that you've replied to their twts.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org I’m also on the e-mail wagon here. On http://darch.dk/timeline/conv/oe3howa I have added a “Comment via email” botten if uses are not logged in. This feature could be extend to other places in the various UIs. Like we already got the “Does not follow your” / “Follow you” on the profile page in yarnd, so this detection could be used to sugget the user to email that person, when mentioning them.

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@stigatle@yarn.stigatle.no The reason I was thinking about a separate binary / project / service is to bring along our Twtxt friends like @movq@www.uninformativ.de and @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org and anyone else that self-hosted their Twtxt feed on their own. But this of course has added complexities like spinning up yanrd along with whatever this thing will be called configuring the two and connecting them. Fortunately however yarnd already does this with the feeds service and defaults to using feeds.twtxt.net – So we would so something similar there too. Further thoughts? 🤔

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@prologic@twtxt.net a separate binay would work too, maybe yarnd could just start it. if its a separate project - then it could possibly be useful for others as well? Im not sure, Im just thinking - the easier it is to set up and run - the better it is for everyone. Im sure it can be easy to set up and use either way.

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In-reply-to » Yes, but no. This didn’t happen before, it will drive me nuts. That search sucks, by the way. I know, I am being gentle. 😂

I’ve never liked the idea of having everything displayed all of the time for all of history.

And I still don’t: Search and Bookmarks are better tools for this IMO.

From a technical perspective however, we will not introduce any CGO dependencies into yarnd – It makes portability harder.

Also I hate SQL 😆

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In-reply-to » Great, last system update broke something, building from current master I get:

@prologic@twtxt.net Alright, there’s some erroneous markdown parsing going on, I reckon. In my original twt I have a code block surrounded by three backticks. The code block itself contains a single backtick. However, at least for rendering, yarnd shows three backticks instead (not sure if my markdown is invalid, though):

Image

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📣 NEW: Announcing the new and improved Yarns search engine and crawler! search.twtxt.netExample search for “Hello World” Enjoy! 🤗 – @darch@neotxt.dk When you have this, this is what we need to work on in terms of improving the UI/UX. As a first step you should probably try to apply the same SimpleCSS to this codebase and go from there. – In the end (didn’t happen yet, time/effort) most of the code here in yarns will get reused directly into yarnd, except that I’ll use the bluge indexer instead.

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In-reply-to » Use C do crime! https://cdn.masto.host/pdxsocial/media_attachments/files/107/294/565/215/390/680/original/1d29c85c0aa4c9a5.png

JavaScript : web apps

wut?! 😳 seriously?! 🤦‍♂️

Python : small tools

Okay 👌

Go: micro services

Umm bad generalization 🤣 – Example yarnd that powers most of Yarn.social 😂

Java: enterprise software

Yes! Oh gawd yes! 🤣 And Java™ needs to die a swift death!

C: crimes

Hmmm? 🤔 I feel this one is going to have some backslash and/or go the way of “Hacker” being misconstrued to mean entirely different/incorrect things as is what’s happening in the media (for various definitions of “media”).

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👋 Q&A: Let’s discuss the removal of Editing and Deleting your last Twt. This is something @fastidious@twtxt.net has raised to me on IRC and something I find quite a valid approach to this. Over time I believe the utility and value of “Editing” and “Deleting” one’s last Twt isn’t as valuable as we’d like and increased complexity and introduces all kinds of side-effects that are hard to manage correctly. I vote for the removal of this feature from yarnd, the mobile app nor API support this anyway…

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