@movq@www.uninformativ.de I did the same. jenny fetches archives, yes, but that twtxt I am referring about is no longer. If you fetch it, but I don’t, there is certainly something going on…

@quark@ferengi.one

Since jenny can’t fetch archived twtxts

I wiped my entire maildir and re-fetched everything. I did that recently because @aelaraji@aelaraji.com asked me to 😅, but I guess I also did this back in 2023.

What did you do to make yours work?

jenny does fetch archived feeds during the normal jenny -f operation. Only when using the recently implemented --fetch-context, archived feeds are not fetched (yet). That was an oversight and I intend to fix that.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I figured it will be something like this, yet, you were able to reply just fine, and I wasn’t. Looking at your twtxt.txt I see this line:

2024-09-16T17:37:14+00:00	(#o6dsrga) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt>

@<quark https://ferengi.one/twtxt.txt> This is what I get. 🤔

Which is using the right hash. Mine, on the other hand, when I replied to the original, old style message (Message-Id: <o6dsrga>), looks like this:

2024-09-16T16:42:27+00:00	(#o) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt> this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P

What did you do to make yours work? I simply went to the oldest @prologic@twtxt.net’s entry on my Maildir, and replied to it (jenny set the reply-to hash to #o, even though the Message-Id is o6dsrga). Since jenny can’t fetch archived twtxts, how could I go to re-fetch everything? And, most importantly, would re-fetching fix the Message-Id:?

This is how my original message shows up on jenny:

From: quark <quark>
Subject: (#o) @prologic this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2024 12:42:27 -0400
Message-Id: <k7imvia@twtxt>
X-twtxt-feed-url: https://ferengi.one/twtxt.txt

(#o) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt> this was your first twtxt. Cool! :-P

@sorenpeter@darch.dk

1. (replyto:http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z)
   

I think I like this a lot. 🤔

The problem with using hashes always was that they’re “one-directional”: You can construct a hash from URL + timestamp + twt, but you cannot do the inverse. When I see “, I have no idea what that could possibly refer to.

But of course something like (replyto:http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z) has all the information you need. This could simplify twt/feed discovery quite a bit, couldn’t it? 🤔 That thing that I just implemented – jenny asking some Yarn pod for some twt hash – would not be necessary anymore. Clients could easily and automatically fetch complete threads instead of requiring the user to follow all relevant feeds.

Only using the timestamp to identify a twt also solves the edit problem.

It even is better for non-Yarn clients, because you now don’t have to read, understand, and implement a “twt hash specification” before you can reply to someone.

The only problem, really, is that (replyto:http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z) is so long. Clients would have to try harder to hide this. 😅

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com So what is it about @sorenpeter@darch.dk’s feed that’s screwed with your client? (Jenny?) 🤔 Kind of curious now 🤣

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com no, it is not just you. Do fetch the parent with jenny, and you will see there are two messages with different hash. Soren did something funky, for sure.

Something odd just happened to my twtxt timeline… A bunch of twts dissapered, others were marked to be deleted in mutt. so I nuked my whole twtxt Maildir and deleted my ~/.cache/jenny in order to start with a fresh Pull. I pulled feed as usual. Now like HALF the twts aren’t there 😂 even my my last replay. WTF IS GOING ON? 🤣🤣🤣

Alright, I saw enough broken threads lately to be motivated enough to extend the --fetch-context thingy: It can now ask Yarn pods for twt hashes.

https://www.uninformativ.de/git/jenny/commit/eefd3fa09083e2206ed0d71887d2ef2884684a71.html

This is only done as a last resort if there’s no other way to find the missing twt. Like, when there’s a twt that begins with just a hash and no user mention, there’s no way for jenny to know on which feed that twt can be found, so it’ll ask some Yarn pod in that case.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org This looks like a nice way to do it.

Another thought: if clients can’t agree on the url (for example, if we switch to this new way, but some old clients still do it the old way), that could be mitigated by computing many hashes for each twt: one for every url in the feed. So, if a feed has three URLs, every twt is associated with three hashes when it comes time to put threads together.

A client stills need to choose one url to use for the hash when composing a reply, but this might add some breathing room if there’s a period when clients are doing different things.

(From what I understand of jenny, this would be difficult to implement there since each pseudo-email can only have one msgid to match to the in-reply-to headers. I don’t know about other clients.)

The actual end-user problem is that I can’t see the thread properly when using neomutt+jenny.

@prologic@twtxt.net One of your twts begins with (#st3wsda): https://twtxt.net/twt/bot5z4q

Based on the twtxt.net web UI, it seems to be in reply to a twt by @cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org which begins “I’ve been sketching out…”.

But jenny thinks the hash of that twt is 6mdqxrq. At least, there’s a very twt in their feed with that hash that has the same text as appears on yarn.social (except with ‘ instead of ’).

Based on this, it appears jenny and yarnd disagree about the hash of the twt, or perhaps the twt was edited (though I can’t see any difference, assuming ’ vs ’ is just a rendering choice).

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Thanks, it works!

But when I tried it out on a twt from @prologic@twtxt.net, I discovered jenny and yarn.social seem to disagree about the hash of this twt: https://twtxt.net/twt/st3wsda . jenny assigned it a hash of 6mdqxrq but the URL and prologic’s reply suggest yarn.social thinks the hash is st3wsda. (And as a result, jenny –fetch-context didn’t work on prologic’s twt.)

I’m SO enjoying the new jenny --fetch-context 😁

@falsifian@www.falsifian.org have you tried jenny’s fetch-context branch? It works great!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de hmm, I am already using au BufNewFile,BufRead jenny-posting.eml setl completefunc=jenny#CompleteMentions fo-=t wrap, from jenny. How would I go to incorporate that there?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de, maybe you can help me with this. I want to place the vim cursor at the end of the first line on replies, and forks. I have tried adding to this to jenny’s configuration:

"editor": "vim \"+normal $\"",

But that doesn’t work. How would you go about it?

Because I saw the nick on movq (@prologic@twtxt.net, can’t mention anyone outside this pod, by the way), I looked the user up: https://tilde.pt/~marado/twtxt.txt. I wonder if the “hashes” they are using will work out of the box with jenny.

Talking about jenny, going to play with the latest now. Tata! :-)

@falsifian@www.falsifian.org @bender@twtxt.net I pushed an alternative implementation to the fetch-context branch. This integrates the whole thing into mutt/jenny.

You will want to configure a new mutt hotkey, similar to the “reply” hotkey:

macro index,pager <esc>C "\
<enter-command> set my_pipe_decode=\$pipe_decode nopipe_decode<Enter>\
<pipe-message> jenny -c<Enter>\
<enter-command> set pipe_decode=\$my_pipe_decode; unset my_pipe_decode<Enter>" \
"Try to fetch context of current twt, like a missing root twt"

This pipes the mail to jenny -c. jenny will try to find the thread hash and the URL and then fetch it. (If there’s no URL or if the specific twt cannot be found in that particular feed, it could query a Yarn pod. That is not yet implemented, though.)

The whole thing looks like this:

https://movq.de/v/0d0e76a180/jenny.mp4

In other words, when there’s a missing root twt, you press a hotkey to fetch it, done.

I think I like this version better. 🤔

(This needs a lot of testing. 😆)

@quark@ferengi.one this is what I see:

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I don’t know if I’d want to discard the twts. I think what I’m looking for is a command “jenny -g https://host.org/twtxt.txt” to fetch just that one feed, even if it’s not in my follow list. I could wrap that in a shell script so that when I see a twt in reply to a feed I don’t follow, I can just tap a key and the feed will get added to my maildir. I guess the script would look for a mention at the start of a selected twt and call jenny -g on the feed.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Is there a good way to get jenny to do a one-off fetch of a feed, for when you want to fill in missing parts of a thread? I just added @slashdot@feeds.twtxt.net to my private follow file just because @prologic@twtxt.net keeps responding to the feed :-P and I want to know what he’s commenting on even though I don’t want to see every new slashdot twt.

‘Dangerous message’: Anti-Semitic politician appears as guest of honour at public school
Anti-Semitic Greens politician Jenny Leong being celebrated as a guest of honour at a public school on Friday has sent a “dangerous message”, says Sky News host Sharri Markson.

Ms Leong was criticised just a few weeks ago for her remarks that Jews’ “tentacles reach in to the areas that try and influence power” but eventually … ⌘ Read more

That might not be what the F in jenny with mutt means

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
That is what I saw when I went onto twtxt.net to see. But it does not matter much as posts that I write from jenny work.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
I hope this post works fine. I just copied the last post when I changed my feed. But this post is made with jenny.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
Yeah I think jenny should work fine. Might have got messed up. Don’t know what messed up my file I don’t recall anything that would mess up my file.
Yep the search engine is an option but if I switch to my own server or get a rented server then I will be able to view the logs.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org
I use Jenny and I thought the multi line did work. Will keep that in mind when I am writing out posts. Also do you know how I can see if someone mentions me that I am not follwing? I know the user agents exist but I can’t view the server lgos since I host this on codeberg but if I do switch to my own server it would work.

Testing out Jenny. If this works I will setup Jenny with mutt.

@prologic@twtxt.net @xuu@txt.sour.is Don’t think I can reply to the thread in twtwt. Right now Jenny is not working for some reason. I wonder if @movq@www.uninformativ.de has any ideas. Anyway I am happy to be back and will see if I can get jenny working. Though my following list is gone now. Plus I can’t see when someone mentions me if I am not follwing them so I should work on that.

I am back on twtxt for now. I am using twtwt client. Don’t think that it does replies so I should try jenny with mutt again.

❤️ 🎶: SOLO by JENNIE

Black Hole Bonanza: StarTalk Live! With Neil deGrasse Tyson, Janna Levin, & Jenny Greene ⌘ Read more

I am back on twtxt. Switched to endevour os from fedora nd setup Jenny again. Now I just have to setup autopublishing and it will be all setup.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de, well, yes, that has always been the case. Not just on jenny, but on Yarn. I can’t follow everything, and everyone. To see whether is a reply, a simple h on mutt shows the headers, and there you have it. That is not too convoluted, is it? I mean, if you really want to know–but why?–it is a simple key press. If I don’t see a context on something as obvious as the example you used, it is simply a reply to someone I don’t follow, and pretty much ignore. End of story. 😂

@prologic@twtxt.net I guess as long as jenny just links to the post.

@prologic@twtxt.net In jenny there is the option to reply to forked threads

@prologic@twtxt.net I guess anything that is open source and is not resctricted can be forked. I would assume jenny is the same but I can wait will movq replies.

@prologic@twtxt.net Yeah I do think Jenny adds most of the extensions.

@akoizumi@social.kyoko-project.wer.ee We were talking about having links on the yarn.social page for some guide on how to setup jenny + mutt

@movq@uninformativ.de Do you know how I would find people that reply to my posts or replies or even mention my users? Prologic tried to contact me and unless I found him on the yarn pod then I would not know he exists and wants to talk to me. The user agents would work but I don’t know if I can view my web server logs from codeberg pages and I don’t know how to monitor my logs for mentions. What about the way yarn does it by added people you follow to your twtxt file and having friends of friends like yarn does it be a thing for jenny. Just an idea

@prologic@twtxt.net There is also a link to the blog post on the yarn.social site about how to setup jenny with mutt.

@prologic@twtxt.net I never tried out any of the other clients except jenny with mutt. The best thing about yarn vs something like Mastodon is that its more promoted of the specification of twtxt files instead of server part. Twtxt can be hosted on some free static site host or some git server even so its really low resouces. Just a basic text file. As far as I know yarn is mostly just a web ui around twtxt and an extnetion to the specification to add some more usability and modern things. Anyone can join decentrilized network by having a twtxt file somewhere. If you want to support the specification of twtxt then that is really something most projects don’t do and they promote the server software mostly.

@prologic@twtxt.net I don’t think Jenny does much of anything with the avatar and description but I do know yarn does and its not a bad thing to include the metadata for those users.

@prologic@twtxt.net I do think the post about how to setup jenny + mutt over on the uninformativ.de blog is still a great post. I used that post to see the steps to set it up and it works fine. Though I can write some blog post with some more documentation for things like auto publishing. The big issue with plain twtxt is that I would have not seen your post unless I looked on twtxt.net when I was looking at yarn a little bit more. Twtxt does overcome the issue by introducing the registry but I can’t figure out any way to use them for Jenny and almost no one uses them in the first place. So I can’t see anyones replies or mentions unless I am following them. Yarn does overcome the issue by friends of friends as you would know as the creator of yarn.

autopublishing works with jenny + mutt I think i am done configuring mostly everything now

got jenny setup and threads works completly fine but now I want to figure out how to get auto publishing working

Right now I have to setup jenny for my timeline. Just added myself to the Registry so that part is done.

testing twtxt using jenny

Conservative leadership race turns nasty between Poilievre and Brown

Image

@benk@kwiecien.us I am using jenny (we chatted a bit on IRC earlier today). I have been using it for over five months now, I think. It is truly a joy to use, specially because you can use the power of Mutt/NeoMutt to read your twts.

@prologic@twtxt.net

I think something has caused my feed to be in a bad state and is now unpardable😥

I can read this on jenny, but the twt isn’t making it to my own pod. Something has gone really wrong, me thinks.

@fastidious@arrakis.netbros.com

I hit RETURN after the subject, and nick […]

I shows fine on jenny. Let’s see how Yarn renders mine above.

Not to boast, but jenny has never failed me 😂. It is so neat, powerful, and streamlined, not even funny! Thank you very much, @movq@www.uninformativ.de for it! 💛

@prologic@twtxt.net
Awesome! Hope he will reply as fast as he did with me. And yes about the noise and length. Not an issue on jenny, or my own pod (I have it set to 2048, I think), but yes, ephemeral is right.

@jlj@twt.nfld.uk
Yup, jenny. She is so cool! 😋

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

👀 jenny, you say 👀

😁 cc @movq

@movq@www.uninformativ.de How is deletion supposed to work? In mutt I deleted by D~d>1m and then fetched by !jenny -f. This brings back all deleted twts. Isn’t lastmods used to skip older twts?

@fastidious@arrakis.netbros.com
The signs show fine on jenny. So, it is a display thing. Probably related to Markdown.

FOLLOW: @xuu@txt.sour.is from @quark@ferengi.one using jenny/latest

@prologic@twtxt.net
Jenny populates Mutt’s subject with the entire twt. That makes for very, very long subject lines.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de
Fair enough, I will modify my cron job to match. When I come across edited twts, I just delete both knowing jenny will fetch the right one next iteration. I like keeping things tidy. 😊

@movq@www.uninformativ.de what is your cron job repeat time for jenny? Currently I have mine to every minute, and while it allows me to participate fairly quick on conversations it has some drawbacks: it captures every single edited twt, so I end up with seemingly the same twt, but not quite—as it has minor edits, etc. So, “repeats”. Perhaps setting cron to check every 5 minutes or so is best?

FOLLOW: @xuu@txt.sour.is from @stackeffect@twtxt.stackeffect.de using jenny/latest

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Unless you are stripping stuff on your twts, there is no much to implement. Things will be bold , italics , underlined , and so on, on a client that can render them. Since jenny uses Mutt, I can use my own regex in it to color them as I like. That’s pretty much it.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Goryon parsing is broken. Yarn shows it as I see it on jenny. Exactly the same.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de To clarify, Markdown is just text. 😊 I can do bolding, link things, and if single return multilines ever comes to jenny, I would be able to do bulleted and numbered lists.

The only things—that I know of—that doesn’t work is “> “, but I can use “>”, like so:

D’oh!

So, jenny allows me to write Markdown almost just fine!

Boy, do I love jenny/latest, and Neomutt! 😊

Image

Only thing jenny is missing, to be completely happy, @movq@www.uninformativ.de already knows about. 🙈

@movq@www.uninformativ.de This is my env, on language:

LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8

LANG=en_US.UTF-8

LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8

I had to explicitly set it on the cron job to make jenny work.

@quark@ferengi.one If so, @movq@www.uninformativ.de, not quite https://www.uninformativ.de/git/jenny/commit/4a02eeec58317107c07e759733312d168e319f17.html#h0-0-5... Markdown needs single new lines for many things. Bulleted, numbered, code, etc. need them.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I am getting this when I run it on cron (extra lines in between becuase otherwise jenny will make them a mash):

Traceback (most recent call last):

File “/home/quark/jenny/jenny”, line 565, in

if not retrieve_all(config):

File “/home/quark/jenny/jenny”, line 373, in retrieve_all

refresh_self(config)

File “/home/quark/jenny/jenny”, line 294, in refresh_self

process_feed(config, config[‘self_nick’], config[‘self_url’], content)

File “/home/quark/jenny/jenny”, line 280, in process_feed

fp.write(mail_body)

File “/usr/lib/python3.8/encodings/iso8859_15.py”, line 19, in encode

return codecs.charmap_encode(input,self.errors,encoding_table)[0]

UnicodeEncodeError: ‘charmap’ codec can’t encode character ‘\U0001f4e3’ in position 31: character maps to

@quark@ferengi.one By the way, you reply did not showed as a reply to a conversation on jenny this time. I wonder is something broke with the latest changes.

FOLLOW: @xuu@txt.sour.is from @vain-test@www.uninformativ.de using jenny/latest

How would jenny handle multiline twts? Let’s find out! - One - Two - Three And: 1. One 2. Two 3. Three

@quark@twtxt.netbros.com I have removed the cron job, and added jenny -f to the small script that starts mutt with the .muttrc-jenny file. That way when I open, it refresh the feed before. Let’s see how it goes.

Seeing repeated twts again. Only thing I am doing different is running jenny every 5 minutes on a cron job. I really don’t know what to think.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I got it! I had jenny under my ~/.local/bin/, and didn’t realised the one on the repo changed. D’oh! I am symlinking it now, so this doesn’t happen again. I love autocomplete!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I did a git pull but that isn’t pulling jenny-posting.eml. Am I missing something?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I noticed that if I ran jenny -f on a cron job, and kept mutt open, messages will get duplicated (same message, time, different message-id). I run it now on a small script before opening mutt.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Ah, I see. I mean, it is not biggie, as normally I just reply to people, so that part works beautifully. A vi/vim script would work, but it is not universal. What if I use joe, or Emacs, or nano? Meh, jenny is awesome as is, thank you for it! ☺️

I need someone with a nice, and clean twtxt.txt feed. One that doesn’t include much–if any–images, and in which twts have more content. Just looking to see how formatting is handled in jenny and how to tweak it to my liking.

I might have figure out what was causing duplicated entries here. I think running jenny -f while mutt is open was causing it. I have disabled the cron job, and it doesn’t seem to be happening anymore. Let’s see how accurate my theory is. 😂

@movq@www.uninformativ.de is there a better way to mention others while using jenny?

How to Do Nothing: Jenny Odell’s case for resisting “The Attention Economy” / Boing Boing https://boingboing.net/2019/04/09/resisting-attention-economy.html

Jenny Owen’s website - Gosper’s Algorithm Explained https://jennyhasahat.github.io/hashlife.html

A look at Barbara Kruger and Jenny … https://catnormoyle.com/2011/02/02/a-look-at-barbara-kruger-and-jenny-holzers-use-of-typographic-art/