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bender
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » @andros Thanks for consolidating a lot of good ideas. Especially how you have deiced to just extend the mention syntax for location-based treads. This might even be backward compatible with older (pre-yarn) clients. What about using Z for UTC +00:00- is that allowed in your specs? Regarding url = I would suggest to only allow one and the maybe add url_old = or url_alt = !? I'm still not a fan of a DM feature, even thou it helps that i have now been split out into a separate feed file. Instead if would suggest a contact = field for where people can put an email or other id/link for an established chat protocol like signal or matrix.

In other words, why didn’t you all do the same that @movq@www.uninformativ.de did, and setup a completely different feed for this?

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sorenpeter
darch.dk
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » @andros Thanks for consolidating a lot of good ideas. Especially how you have deiced to just extend the mention syntax for location-based treads. This might even be backward compatible with older (pre-yarn) clients. What about using Z for UTC +00:00- is that allowed in your specs? Regarding url = I would suggest to only allow one and the maybe add url_old = or url_alt = !? I'm still not a fan of a DM feature, even thou it helps that i have now been split out into a separate feed file. Instead if would suggest a contact = field for where people can put an email or other id/link for an established chat protocol like signal or matrix.

But Yarn does not like it: https://twtxt.net/twt/yoatzwa

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andros
twtxt.andros.dev
 (1y ago)

I’ve just released version 1.0 of twtxt.el (the Emacs client), the stable and final version with the current extensions. I’ll let the community maintain it, if there are interested in using it. I will also be open to fix small bugs.
I don’t know if this twt is a goodbye or a see you later. Maybe I will never come back, or maybe I will post a new twt this afternoon. But it’s always important to be grateful. Thanks to @prologic@twtxt.net @movq@www.uninformativ.de @eapl.me@eapl.me @bender@twtxt.net @aelaraji@aelaraji.com @arne@uplegger.eu @david@collantes.us @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org @doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt @xuu@txt.sour.is @sorenpeter@darch.dk for everything you have taught me. I’ve learned a lot about #twtxt, HTTP and working in community. It has been a fantastic adventure!
What will become of me? I have created a twtxt fork called Texudus (https://texudus.readthedocs.io/). I want to continue learning on my own without the legacy limitations or technologies that implement twtxt. It’s not a replacement for any technology, it’s just my own little lab. I have also made a fork of my own client and will be focusing on it for a while. I don’t expect anyone to use it, but feedback is always welcome.
Best regards to everyone.
#twtxt #emacs #twtxt-el #texudus

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movq
www.uninformativ.de
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » If we must stick to hashes for threading, can we maybe make it mandatory to always include a reference to the original twt URL when writing replies?

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Kind of, but on the other hand: This twt right here refers to 3rvya6q and your feed, but your feed certainly does not include that particular twt (it comes from my feed).

But my proposal probably isn’t very helpful, either. We have this flat conversation model, so … this twt right here, what should it refer to? Your twt? My root twt? I don’t know.

@prologic@twtxt.net Don’t include this just yet. I need to think about this some more (or drop the idea).

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eapl.me
eapl.me
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » Finally I propose that we increase the Twt Hash length from 7 to 12 and use the first 12 characters of the base32 encoded blake2b hash. This will solve two problems, the fact that all hashes today either end in q or a (oops) 😅 And increasing the Twt Hash size will ensure that we never run into the chance of collision for ions to come. Chances of a 50% collision with 64 bits / 12 characters is roughly ~12.44B Twts. That ought to be enough! -- I also propose that we modify all our clients and make this change from the 1st July 2025, which will be Yarn.social's 5th birthday and 5 years since I started this whole project and endeavour! 😱 #Twtxt #Update

that said, and reading to @sorenpeter@darch.dk and @andros@twtxt.andros.dev I have new thoughts. I assume that this won’t change anyone’s opinions or priorities, so it makes no harm sharing them.

It’s always tempting to use something that already exists (like X, Masto, Bsky, etc.) rather that building anything through effort and disagreement until reaching to something useful and valuable together. A ‘social service’ is only useful if people is using it.

I’ll add that I haven’t lost interest on the ‘hacky’ part of twtxt about developing tools, protocols, and extensions as a community. It’s the appealing part! It’s a nice hobby to have, shared with random people across the world.
But this is not the right way for me, and makes me feel that I’m unwelcome to propose something different (after watching replies to my previous twt). Feels like “If you don’t agree, you are free to leave, we’ll miss you.” Naah, not cool. I’ve lived that many times before, and nowadays I don’t have enough spare time and energy for a hobby like that.

Let’s see what happens next with the micro-community!

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » If we must stick to hashes for threading, can we maybe make it mandatory to always include a reference to the original twt URL when writing replies?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de If we’re focusing on solving the “missing roots” problems. I would start to think about “client recommendations”. The first recommendation would be:

  1. Replying to a Twt that has no initial Subject must itself have a Subject of the form (hash; url).

This way it’s a hint to fetching clients that follow B, but not A (in the case of no mentions) that the Subject/Root might (very likely) is in the feed url.

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movq
www.uninformativ.de
 (1y ago)

If we must stick to hashes for threading, can we maybe make it mandatory to always include a reference to the original twt URL when writing replies?

Instead of

(<a href="https://txt.sour.is/search?q=%23123467">#123467</a>) hello foo bar

you would have

(<a href="https://txt.sour.is/search?q=%23123467">#123467</a> http://foo.com/tw.txt) hello foo bar

or maybe even:

(<a href="https://txt.sour.is/search?q=%23123467">#123467</a> 2025-04-30T12:30:31Z http://foo.com/tw.txt) hello foo bar

This would greatly help in reconstructing broken threads, since hashes are obviously unfortunately one-way tickets. The URL/timestamp would not be used for threading, just for discovery of feeds that you don’t already follow.

I don’t insist on including the timestamp, but having some idea which feed we’re talking about would help a lot.

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eapl.me
eapl.me
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » Finally I propose that we increase the Twt Hash length from 7 to 12 and use the first 12 characters of the base32 encoded blake2b hash. This will solve two problems, the fact that all hashes today either end in q or a (oops) 😅 And increasing the Twt Hash size will ensure that we never run into the chance of collision for ions to come. Chances of a 50% collision with 64 bits / 12 characters is roughly ~12.44B Twts. That ought to be enough! -- I also propose that we modify all our clients and make this change from the 1st July 2025, which will be Yarn.social's 5th birthday and 5 years since I started this whole project and endeavour! 😱 #Twtxt #Update

July 1st. 63 days from now to implement a backward-incompatible change, apparently not open to other ideas like replacing blake with SHA, or discussing implementation challenges for other languages and platforms.
Finally just closing #18, #19 and #20 without starting a proper discussion and ignoring a ‘micro consensus’ feels… not right.

I don’t know what to think rather than letting it rest (May will be busy here) and focus on other stuff in the future.

twt-hash-v2.md#implementation-timeline

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

Finally I propose that we increase the Twt Hash length from 7 to 12 and use the first 12 characters of the base32 encoded blake2b hash. This will solve two problems, the fact that all hashes today either end in q or a (oops) 😅 And increasing the Twt Hash size will ensure that we never run into the chance of collision for ions to come. Chances of a 50% collision with 64 bits / 12 characters is roughly ~12.44B Twts. That ought to be enough! – I also propose that we modify all our clients and make this change from the 1st July 2025, which will be Yarn.social’s 5th birthday and 5 years since I started this whole project and endeavour! 😱 #Twtxt #Update

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

And speaking of Twtxt (See: #xushlda, feeds should be treated as append-only. Your client(s) should be appending Twts to the bottom of the file. Edits should never modify the timestamp of the Twt being edited, nor should a Twt that was edited by deleted, unless you actually intended to delete it (but that’s more complicated as it’s very hard to control or tell clients what to do in a truely decentralised ecosystem for the deletion case). #Twtxt #Client #Recommendations

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » @sorenpeter you raw feed says otherwise. Also, https://txt.sour.is/conv/wj5bcwq.

@bender@twtxt.net Hehe good sleuthing 🤣 I swear it was an edit ✍️ Haha 😂 yarnd now “sees” both every single time, where-as before it would just obliterate the old Twt, but remain in archive. Now you get to see both 😅 Not sure if that’s a good thing or not, but it certainly makes it much clearer how to write “code logic” for detecting edits and doing something more UX(y) about ‘em 🤔

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

I’m thinking of building a hardened peering protocol for Yarn.social’s yarnd: pods establish cryptographic identities, exchange signed /info and /twt payloads with signature verification, ensuring authenticity, integrity, and spoof-proof identity validation across the distributed network.

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eapl.me
eapl.me
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » @andros maybe create a separate, completely distinct feed for DM? That way, clients do not need to do anything, only those wanted to "talk in private" follow themselves, using their very special dm-only.txt feeds. 😂

by commenting out DMs are you giving up on simplicity? See the Metadata extension holding the data inside comments, as the client doesn’t need to show it inside the timeline.

I don’t think that commenting out DMs as we are doing for metadata is giving up on simplicity (it’s a feature already), and it helps to hide unwanted DMs to clients that will take months to add it’s support to something named… an extension.

For some other extensions in https://twtxt.dev/extensions.html (for example the reply-to hash #abcdfeg or the mention @ < example http://example.org/twtxt.txt >) is not a big deal. The twt is still understandable in plain text.
For DM, it’s only interesting for you if you are the recipient, otherwise you see an scrambled message like 1234567890abcdef=. Even if you see it, you’ll need some decryption to read it. I’ve said before that DMs shouldn’t be in the same section that the timeline as it’s confusing.

So my point stands, and as I’ve said before, we are discussing it as a community, so let’s see what other maintainers add to the convo.

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » Proposal: Change the order of twts in the feeds https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/twtxt.dev/issues/26 I drop the bomb and leave! 💣 🏃‍➡️ #twtxt

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Haha 🤣 We’ve explored this idea in the past and we decided that it’s actually a good idea to have an “append-only” feed for various reasons. We’ve also explored the idea of using Range requests, but opted instead to just archive/rotate our feeds periodically 😅 There really isn’t much point in having a feed in reverse chronological order, except (maybe?) so a human read view the new twts at the top of the file?! 🤣

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andros
twtxt.andros.dev
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » @prologic @bender @eapl.me I think opening another file is a bad idea because it adds complexity to the clients, breaks the single feed and I think keeping legacy clients will be more complex to add new features in the future. A modern approach is important. I'll be honest, I'm a bit tired of the fight around the direct message. Perhaps, we can remove it as an extension and use the alternative @prologic . My suggestion apparently doesn't like to the community. I have no problem with remove it.

@bender@twtxt.net I use it. It’s not the feature I use the most in the fediverse, but I communicate this way with several friends. For example, it’s the main way I talk to the original creator of the twtxt-el repository, the way people greet me for the first time or the way they notify me of some bugs in the software I maintain. I can even tell you that it’s the main way I talk to some maintainers of the Emacs community. If there are any of you reading my words, speak up!
Why not have the same? There are things I want to say to @prologic@twtxt.net in private, why should I have to send him an email or private IRC? Or an public twt.
Of course, here’s a topic we’ve already talked about: what is twtxt for you? For me it will always be a social network, in microblogging format, but an asynchronous way of communicating. And having a tool to control visibility is basic 😄
I look forward to hearing from you @eapl.me@eapl.me !

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bender
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)
↳ In-reply-to » All these remind me of the "blog" ability once existed in Yarnd. I hate to be the party pooper, but little to non interest from me. LOL. I am up to increase the length of a twtxt, though. It is rather limiting right now.

See:

<textarea id="text" name="text" placeholder="Hi! 👋 Don't forget to post a Twt today!" rows="4" maxlength="576" required="true" aria-required="true"></textarea>

So, 576?

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

**(#tdyfazq) Holy hell?! When I post this:

@<kate https://yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz/user/kat/twtxt.txt> Glad you think so! 👌 My goal with Yar ...**
Holy hell?! When I post this:

@kate@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz Glad you think so! 👌 My goal with Yarn.social has always been to provide the best (best that I can anyway!) truly decentralised (slow) social experience that uses the Twtxt format under the hood 😅

”`

Something is swallowing it. ⌘ Read more”`

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

**(#6kkpdda) This expands the usefulness of Twtxt / Yarn.social to:

  • Sharing small posts

  • Sharing links

  • Sharing media

  • Having long conversat …**
    This expands the usefulness of Twtxt / Yarn.social to:

  • Sharing small posts

  • Sharing links

  • Sharing media

  • Having long conversations

  • Voting on topics, opinions or decisions

  • RSVPing to virtual or physical events ⌘ Read more

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

(#6kkpdda) The nice thing here is that any Ui/UX rendering for a “good user experience” is similar to what yarnd does for Youtube/Spotify/what …
The nice thing here is that any Ui/UX rendering for a “good user experience” is similar to what yarnd does for Youtube/Spotify/whatever embedding. Plus anyone can participate, even if they don’t really have a client that understand it, it’s just text with some “syntax” afterall. ⌘ Read more

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

💡 I had this crazy idea (or is it?) last night while thinking about Twtxt and Yarn.social 😅 There are two things I think that could …
💡 I had this crazy idea ( or is it?) last night while thinking about Twtxt and Yarn.social 😅 There are two things I think that could be really useful additions to the yarnd UI/UX experience ( for those that use it) and as “client” features ( not spec changes). The two ideas are quite simple:

  • Voting – a way to cast, collect a vote on a decision, topic or opinion.

  • RSVP – a way to “ … ⌘ Read more

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

**(#zhlsx2q) @bender@bender Sure! 👍

{
    ...
   # Layer 4 Reverse Proxy
   layer4 {
      # Gopher
      0.0.0.0:70 {
         route { ...**
[@bender _@twtxt.net_](https://twtxt.net/user/bender/) Sure! 👍

{

...

# Layer 4 Reverse Proxy
layer4 {

  # Gopher
  0.0.0.0:70 {
     route {
        proxy <internal_ip>:70
     }
  }

  # IRC (TLS)
  0.0.0.0:6697 {
     route {
        proxy <internal_ip>:6697
     }
  }

}
}

⌘ [Read more](https://twtxt.net/twt/stxbcda)

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

Am I the only one that’s confused by the discussions, and then the voting we had on the whole threading model? 🤔 I’m not even sure what I vot …
Am I the only one that’s confused by the discussions, and then the voting we had on the whole threading model? 🤔 I’m not even sure what I voted for, but I know it wasn’t the one that won haha 🤣 ( which I’m still very much against for based on an intuition, experience and lots of code writing lately). ⌘ Read more

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

**@bender@twtxt.net I noticed that although the Discover view (and your own Timeline) is much improved with a MaxAgeDays configuration at …**
@bender @twtxt.net I noticed that although the Discover view ( and your own Timeline) is much improved with a MaxAgeDays configuration at the pod level, that now some profiles are rather empty. This is only because well, they’re a bit “inactive” so to speak 🗣️ Not sure what to do about this at the moment… Open to ideas? 💡 ⌘ Read more

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

AI isn’t a shortcut for thinking. In her guide for skeptics, Hilary Gridley reframes AI as a collaborator—not a replacement. Use it like spe …
AI isn’t a shortcut for thinking. In her guide for skeptics, Hilary Gridley reframes AI as a collaborator—not a replacement. Use it like spellcheck for your thoughts. Don’t fear it—iterate with it. Insight improves, speed follows. Full post: https://hils.substack.com/p/the-ai-skeptics-guide-to-ai-collaboration ⌘ Read more

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

Hmmm there’s a bug somewhere in the way I’m ingesting archived feeds 🤔

sqlite> select * from twts where content like 'The web is such garbage these days%';
      hash = 37sjhla
  feed_url = https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/1
   content = The web is such garbage these days 😔 Or is it the garbage search engines? 🤔
   created = 2024-11-14T01:53:46Z
created_dt = 2024-11-14 01:53:46
   subject = #37sjhla
  mentions = []
      tags = []
     links = []
sqlite>

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

**Hmmm there’s a bug somewhere in the way I’m ingesting archived feeds 🤔

sqlite> select * from twts where content like 'The web is such ga ...**
Hmmm there’s a bug somewhere in the way I’m ingesting archived feeds 🤔

sqlite> select * from twts where content like ‘The web is such garbage these days%’;

  hash = 37sjhla

feed_url = https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/1
content = The web is such garbage these days 😔 Or is it the garbage search engines? 🤔
created = 2024-11-14T01:53:46Z
created_dt = 2024-11-14 01:53:46
… ⌘ Read more

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prologic
twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

Btw @andros@twtxt.andros.dev ; The automated feed you put together for Hacker News… Does it at any point rewrite parts of the feed as it goes along? 🤔 I’ve had to unfollow it because I’ve found in practise it makes a twt, then seems to modify that same twt (observed by content manually) at least twice. This ends up becoming effectively an “Edit” and essentially duplicate (looking) posts 😢

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

Btw @andros@andros ; The automated feed you put together for Hacker News… Does it at any point rewrite parts of the feed as it goes …
Btw @andros @twtxt.andros.dev ; The automated feed you put together for Hacker News… Does it at any point rewrite parts of the feed as it goes along? 🤔 I’ve had to unfollow it because I’ve found in practise it makes a twt, then seems to modify that same twt ( observed by content manually) at least twice. This ends up … ⌘ Read more

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

(#3lokkza) Seem like it’s a server-client thingy? 🤔 I much prefer tools in this case and defer the responsibility of storage to something els …
Seem like it’s a server-client thingy? 🤔 I much prefer tools in this case and defer the responsibility of storage to something else. I really like restic for that reason and the fact that it’s pretty rock solid. I have zero complaints 😅 ⌘ Read more

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prologic-twtxt-atom-feed
feeds.twtxt.net
 (1y ago)

**(#2dh7m3q) Timeline of Evolution of Twtxt/Yarn.social:

  • 2016 – Twtxt created by John Downey: plain text + HTTP = minimalist microbloggin …**
    Timeline of Evolution of Twtxt/Yarn.social:

  • 2016 – Twtxt created by John Downey: plain text + HTTP = minimalist microblogging

  • 2017–2019 – Community builds CLI tools, but adoption remains niche

  • 2020 – Yarn.social launched by @prologic @twtxt.net with federation, threading, UI

  • 2021–2023 – Pods sync, user mentions, blocking, search, and media … ⌘ Read more

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