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One of the biggest gripes of the community with the way the threading model currently works with Twtxt v1.2 (https://twtxt.dev) is this notion of:

What is this hash?
What does it refer to?

Idea: Why can’t we all agree to implement a simple URI scheme where we host our Twtxt feeds?

That is, if you host your feed at https://example.com/twtxt.txt – Why can’t or could you not also host various JSON files (let’s agree on the spec of course) at https://example.com/twt/<hash> ? 🤔

That way we solve this problem in a truly decentralised way, rather than every relying on yarnd pods alone.

@prologic@twtxt.net Hahaha, I love that! :-D Something to laugh during these hard times. Hope you’re doing alright.

@arne@uplegger.eu Glückwunsch, das ist in der Tat doch mal eine erfreuliche Abwechslung. :-)

Thanks, @xuu@txt.sour.is, great explanation. In another project I’ve structured it exactly like you wrote. The mock storage over there extends the SQLite storage and provides mechanism to return errors and such for testing purposes:

• storage/ defines the interface
  
  • sqlite/ implements the storage interface
    
  • mock/ extends the SQLite implementation by some mocking capabilities and assertions
    

Here, however, there are no storage subpackages. It’s just storage, that’s it. Everything is in there. The only implementation so far is an SQLite backend that resides in storage. My RAM storage is exactly that SQLite storage, but with :memory: instead a backing file on disk. I do not have a mock storage (yet).

I have to think about it a bit more, but I probably have to do exactly that in my tt rewrite, too. Sigh. I just have the feeling that in storage/sqlite/sqlite_test.go I cannot import storage/mock for the helper because storage/mock/mock.go imports and embeds the type from storage/sqlite. But I’m too tired right now to think clearly.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org OK. So how I have worked things like this out is to have the interface in the root package from the implementations. The interface doesn’t need to be tested since it’s just a contract. The implementations don’t need to import storage.Storage

• storage/ defines the Storage interface (no tests!)
  
  • storage/sqlite for the sqlite implementation tests for sqlite directly
    
  • storage/ram for the ram implementation and tests for RAM directly
    
• controller/ can now import both storage and the implementation as needed.
  

So now I am guessing you wanted the RAM test for testing queries against sqlite and have it return some query response?

For that I usually would register a driver for SQL that emulates sqlite. Then it’s just a matter of passing the connection string to open the registered driver on setup.

https://github.com/glebarez/go-sqlite?tab=readme-ov-file#connection-string-examples

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Das war ein sehr glatter Ritt mit der Bahn. Ebenso heute auf der Autobahn.
(gesendet aus Thüringen)

@arne@uplegger.eu Hals- und Beinbruch! Die Bahn hat ja nur die vier Feinde: Frühling, Sommer, Herbst und Winter. Wurdest Du heute positiv überrascht?

@prologic@twtxt.net You just have to stay in the center. It’s supposed to be calm in there I heard. Just getting there is the tricky part. Good luck!

@prologic@twtxt.net Thank you 😁

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Oh, so that’s the problem! 😅

@prologic@twtxt.net Brace for impact. 🫣 How stormy is it at the moment?

You can find the #twtxt-el channel in Libera IRC to talk about the twtxt.el client, I will keep my connection open so you can ask me questions. Thank you!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de “Thermometer must not be installed near aircraft turbine exhaust.”

@xuu@txt.sour.is My layout looks like this:

• storage/
  
  • storage.go: defines a Storage interface
    
  • sqlite.go: implements the Storage interface
    
  • sqlite_test.go: originally had a function to set up a test storage to test the SQLite storage implementation itself: newRAMStorage(testing.T, $initialData) *Storage
    
• controller/
  
  • feeds.go: uses a Storage
    
  • feeds_test.go: here I wanted to reuse the newRAMStorage(…) function
    

I then tried to relocate the newRAMStorage(…) into a

• teststorage/
  
  • storage.go: moved here as NewRAMStorage(…)
    

so that I could just reuse it from both

• storage/
  
  • sqlite_test.go: uses testutils.NewRAMStorage(…)
    
• controller/
  
  • feeds_test.go: uses testutils.NewRamStorage(…)
    

But that results into an import cycle, because the teststorage package imports storage for storage.Storage and the storage package imports testutils for testutils.NewRAMStorage(…) in its test. I’m just screwed. For now, I duplicated it as newRAMStorage(…) in controller/feeds_test.go.

I could put NewRAMStorage(…) in storage/testutils.go, which could be guarded with //go:build testutils. With go test -tags testutils …, in storage/sqlite_test.go could just use NewRAMStorage(…) directly and similarly in controller/feeds_test.go I could call storage.NewRamStorage(…). But I don’t know if I would consider this really elegant.

The more I think about it, the more appealing it sounds. Because I could then also use other test-related stuff across packages without introducing other dedicated test packages. Build some assertions, converters, types etc. directly into the same package, maybe even make them methods of types.

If I went that route, I might do the opposite with the build tag and make it something like !prod instead of testing. Only when building the final binary, I would have to specify the tag to exclude all the non-prod stuff. Hmmm.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org No, it’s always in the shadow. But there’s not a lot of wind, maybe other things around it heat up … 🤔

lang=en @xuu@txt.sour.is gotcha!
From that PR #17 I think it was reverted? We could discuss about metadata later this month, as it seems that I’m the only person using it.

I’ve added a [lang=en] to this twt to see current yarn behaviour.

@prologic@twtxt.net Best wishes!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Did you place it in the sun? We only got 15°C today.

Hi everyone,
I’ve drafted a Request for Comments (RFC) to improve how threads work in twtxt:
https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/twtxt.dev/issues/18

I’d love your feedback! Please share your thoughts on anything that could be better explained, check if the proposed dates work for everyone, and I invite you to join the discussion…

I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

• New feature: View and interact with threads.
  
• Optimisation of ordering for long feeds.
  
• Minor fixes.
  

In the next version you will be able to see all your mentions.

Enjoy!

#emacs #twtxt #twtxtel

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@prologic@twtxt.net Ouch, that’s heading right towards you, eh? 🙈

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This is what I’ll be facing into in the next few hours and over the next couple of days! Cyclone Alfred 🌀

@eapl.me@eapl.me@eapl.me@eapl.me I saw a few a while back.

@prologic@twtxt.net Damn! :-( Yeah, I won’t build that into my client. Not worth it for the many things that are still undetectable and the low frequency it happens.

@bmallred@staystrong.run Oh, I hear you! It’s always after carefully proofreading and publishing that a typo suddenly pops up. :-) Not sure if amending your edit implementation is really worth it, but happy hacking in case you do.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Luckily, they’re not made of steel as I would not have made it home with such heavy weights. :-D

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Fuck! So there aren’t any non-criminal printer vendors out there anymore. Very sad. I really don’t understand why this is not highly illegal in the entire world.

@prologic@twtxt.net Got you bro.

@prologic@twtxt.net What the heck. 🫠

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Lyse, the man with feet of steel. 🦾

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org i appreciate you updating this with that info. been in the weeds at work so haven’t been tracking the conversation here much. let me sit on this for a bit because often times the edits are within seconds of first post so maybe maybe i just allow them within a certain time frame or do away with them all together. i really only do it because it bugs me once i notice the typo :)

@prologic@twtxt.net sure thing!
What about discussing it in https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/twtxt.dev ?
The only con I see is that everyone would need to create an account there to participate.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org I meant “detect” lol 😂

@eapl.me@eapl.me There are several points that I like, but I want to highlight number 7. https://text.eapl.mx/a-few-ideas-for-a-next-twtxt-version #twtxt

@prologic@twtxt.net No edits anymore! \o/

I show you the website of Baldo, my little black cat (the pocket panther).
Website: https://baldo.cat/
Twtxt: https://baldo.cat/twtxt.txt
#catsoftwtxt

interesting.. my pod was looking for him as https://eapl.me/twtxt.txt but the correct path is https://eapl.me/tw.txt

I think @movq@www.uninformativ.de removed support for it in jenny. 🫠

@prologic@twtxt.net eapl.me comes up not found for me.

2025-03-02T13:20:00-07:00 (#<fmgas3a https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt?t=2025-03-02T10:12:13Z>) @<prologic https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt> its hard to change by consensus. Some things are won in implementation.

@prologic@twtxt.net its hard to change by consensus. Some things are won in implementation.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Clients could detest edits 🤞

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yeah, the ground was wet here, too. Some sections of esp. smaller paths had turned into mud holes. There are a few notorious spots. Oh well, you just have to press on. :-)

Forest animals also have to do the laundry, they even have a proper clotheshorse! See: https://lyse.isobeef.org/wanderung-zu-den-schurrenhoffuechsen-2021-05-15/07.jpg :-D

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Hahaha, stimmt! :-D

@bmallred@staystrong.run I forgot one more effect of edits. If clients remember the read status of massages by hash, an edit will mark the updated message as unread again. To some degree that is even the right behavior, because the message was updated, so the user might want to have a look at the updated version. On the other hand, if it’s just a small typo fix, it’s maybe not worth to tell the user about. But the client doesn’t know, at least not with additional logic.

Having said that, it appears that this only affects me personally, noone else. I don’t know of any other client that saves read statuses. But don’t worry about me, all good. Just keep doing what you’ve done so far. I wanted to mention that only for the sake of completeness. :-)

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I’ve commented on the ticket: https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/twtxt.dev/issues/14#issuecomment-19142

In all reality, though, I don’t see that our community will come to an agreement. Some folks just don’t want to give up on the content-based addressing scheme.

@prologic@twtxt.net I formed my opinion about this before reading/watching any additional media coverage. And yes, this is extremely bad. These two have no place on the “world stage”. They are deciding on our future. (And I am well aware that my country is heading into a similar direction – unless we stop it.)

I like this syntax, you have my vote, although I’d change it a bit like
#<Alice https://example.com/twtxt.com#2024-12-18T14:18:26+01:00>

Hashes are not a problem on PHP, I dont know why it’s slow to calculate them from your side, but I agree with your points.

BTW, did you have the chance to read my proposal on twtxt 2.0? I shared a few ideas about possible improvements to discuss:
https://text.eapl.mx/a-few-ideas-for-a-next-twtxt-version
https://text.eapl.mx/reply-to-lyse-about-twtxt

@prologic@twtxt.net I wonder if we watched the same video.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Lalala, ich höre nix. 🙉

Aber total unrealistisch. Die „Fokuszeit“ hätte überbucht sein müssen durch ein anderes, wichtiges Meeting. Sonst war ja kein Platz mehr dafür.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Looks like a nice day. 😊 I tried to go on a quick walk, but it was really cold. And everything’s wet at the moment. Bah.

Clothespins in the woods, who would have thunk? 🥴

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org What do you think about this? https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/twtxt.dev/issues/14

@bmallred@staystrong.run Not an issue if you’re the doctor working there. :-)

@bmallred@staystrong.run Any edit automatically changes the twt hash, because the hash is built over the hash URL, message timestamp and message text. https://twtxt.dev/exts/twt-hash.html So, it is only a problem, if somebody replied to your original message with the old hash. The original message suddenly doesn’t exist anymore and the reply becomes detached, orphaned, whatever you wanna call it. Threading doesn’t break, though, if nobody replied to your message.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Do edits cause problems? I sometimes make them and didn’t realize it may be an issue

@thecanine@twtxt.net I like the clipboard function of HeliBoard very much.

@prologic@twtxt.net @david@collantes.us Good question, was this on live TV? I think it was? 🤔

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Schon. 😭

@arne@uplegger.eu That’s nice, but … where do they get the money for this? Must be expensive as heck. 😅

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I don’t see a burst of new twtxt clients popping up. Yeah, the most recent ones are TwtxtReader and twtxt-el. Did I miss one? I agree with @david@collantes.us, looks normal to me. :-)

I’m also working on my rewrite at the moment, but that started… *looking at the git history*… oh wow! O_o Over two years ago! I just implemented jumping to the next/previous unread message.

I was on the hunt for new twts and found what I was looking for. Welcome to my timeline:
@javivf@adn.org.es @lafe@tilde.club @melyanna@tilde.club @nff@www.noizhardware.com @shreyan@twtxt.net

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I could show you some places here, in MeckPomm.
You may also want to renovate an old abandoned manor!?

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev

• System Design Interview Vol. 1 and 2, Alex Xu and Sahn Lam
  
• Designing Data-Intensive Applications, Martin Kleppmann

also @Andros, I see that if I open that URL on my browser, I see weird characters in the .txt file:
description = 🏗
Perhaps your nginx server is missing a Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 header?
https://serverfault.com/a/975289

In timeline it looks OK however, I think it’s relying on

The file must be encoded with UTF-8
of the original spec:
https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/twtxtfile.html

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev, I am getting:

Feed was redirected: https://twtxt.andros.dev -> https://twtxt.andros.dev/

Each time my client fetches your feed. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Wouldn’t be both, pretty much, be the same (I noticed the /, yes)?

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Yeah, well, what they want is for us to become hopeless and give up. We should just try. Not wait and … wait.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org @david@collantes.us I often think about moving to Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. It’s a long way from home and probably not realistic, but one can dream. 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de @david@collantes.us Where can I join you? Building a log cabin in the woods would be dang awesome!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I don’t know. It seems a bit like whatever we do or don’t do, we’re gonna lose. :-( Unless the ban is successful.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I wouldn’t call it regular, but cyclical. Since, with the exception of Yarn (maybe?), clients are everything when it comes to twtxt, every now and then we see an increase of interest on new development. I have seeing them come and go, only few “beside remains”. :-)

Good luck @arne@uplegger.eu !

@bender@twtxt.net I understand 😅

Question to the twtxt veterans, are we experiencing an explosion of clients or is this a regular occurrence?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de ahh, living in a small house in the middle of nowhere, yes! That’s my dream too. We live in the suburbs, in a relatively small community; it isn’t enough, though. Take a sick day, and blast that amp! :-D

@xuu@txt.sour.is What books do you have?

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

To me it appeared that the failed attempts to ban NPD in the past actually helped them gain more supporters.

What makes AfD stronger for sure is just going “lol nah we’re not even going to try”:

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/afd-verbot-antrag-100.html

If they don’t try, then it means that “it can’t be that bad, it’s just a normal party”, right? 😡

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Just before the pandemic, we watched Uncle Bob videos once a week in the lunch break. While almost all of my old teammates agreed with his views, I partially found them to be very odd and even counterproductive.

I didn’t come across John Ousterhout or any of his work before, at least not deliberately. So, this document is my first contact.

I only finished the chapter on comments and I totally agree with John so far. This document just manifests to me how weird Bob’s view is on certain subjects.

I always disagreed with the concept of a maximum method length. Sure, generally, shorter functions are probably better, but it always depends. And I’ve certainly seen super short methods that just made the code flow even worse to follow. While “one function should only do one thing” is a nice general rule, I’m 100% in team John with the shown examples. There are cases, where this doesn’t help readability at all. Not even close.

To me, a function always has to justify its existence. Either by reusing it at least at another place or by coming up with dedicated tests for it. But if it is just called once and there are no tests, I almost always decide against it. Personally, I don’t mind longer methods. We just recently had a discussion about that and I lost against two other workmates who are more in Uncle Bob’s camp, they refactored one medium sized method into three very short ones. Luckily, we agree on most other topics.

Lol, what!? The shorter the method, the longer the variables inside? I first thought I misread or the writeup mixed it up. I’ll always do it the other way around.

I’ve been also bitten badly by outdated comments in the past, but Bob must have worked on really terrible projects to end up with such an attitude to dislike comments. Oh well. No doubt, I’ve come across by several orders of magnitude more useless comments, in my experience (autogenerated) JavaDocs fall in the category more frequently than not. So, I know that there are different types of comments. A comment doesn’t automatically mean that it is good and justified.

But I also partially agree with Bob and John and think that a good name has a proper chance to save a comment. Though, when in doubt, I go John’s route and use a shorter name with a comment rather than use a kilometer long identifier. Writing good comments typically takes some time, sometimes much longer than writing the code. It regularly takes me several minutes. It’s a hard art.

I perhaps should read up on John’s work. He seems to be more reasonable and likeminded. :-) Let me continue to complete this document.

@doesnmppsflt@doesnm.p.psf.lt this one is the safest feed to follow. Quark’s will cease to exist, as I am not renewing the domain. Bender’s will eventually fade away too, I am afraid. “No show, however good, can last forever.” :-)

I have released new updates to the twtxt.el client.

• Markdown to Org mode (you need to install Pandoc).
  
• Centred column.
  
• Added new logo.
  
• Added text helper.
  

The new version I will try to finish the visual thread. You still can’t see the thread yet.

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@thecanine@twtxt.net That’s one of my favorite dogs. Very cute. I like its headband and bandana with the bones.

@david@collantes.us Yeah. A horrendously wrong but simple solution often outpaces are bit more correct but complex one. Especially if the simple one suggests that oneself doesn’t have to change at all and can just continue along. Wishful thinking.

@bender@twtxt.net @arne@uplegger.eu Hahaha, I love it! :-D

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Same. It actually goes for anything AI-related. It’s best kept in /dev/null.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de @arne@uplegger.eu Ach Herrjeh, was für ein Interview! O_o Unfassbar. Da kannste den Sender auch gleich dichtmachen, sowas braucht ja echt niemand. Der Moderator hört sich in der Tat arg versprengt an. :-(

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Oh right, I completely forgot about the media! Maybe a sign that they’re losing their relevance? The third power appears to be gone or changed sides. Lots of them work on their own abolishment.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Dem Ramelow platzt da ja fast die Hutschnur - verständlicher Weise.
uebermedien schreibt:

Den Linken-Politiker Bodo Ramelow traktierte Moderator Dirk Müller mit plumpen Provokationen. Der AfD-Politikerin Beatrix von Storch rollte er einen Verständnis-Flokati aus.
Es war eine verstörende Demonstration politischer Schieflage.

Der Interviewer (Dirk Müller) scheint mir auch nicht ganz koscher. Meine Filterblase wirft zu Ihm Lobhudeleien aus dem versprengten Sektor.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org

The big established parties are all bad traitors. I blame them and their actions to help raise AfD. They just [don’t?] give a fuck about the ordinary people, they’re only concerned about their private gain and power.

To a large degree, yes. But I think the media is also equally at fault. There was absolutely no reason to invite AfD people to every event and let them talk. This has been going on for over 10 years. When we give them a stage to spread their hate, are we really surprised that hate spreads … ?

I don’t know the answers to this desaster. I’m beginning to think that people literally just want an outlet for their frustration, nothing more. It’s not about what particular parties actually plan to do. At least I think this applies to people in their 30ies and 40ies.

@bender@twtxt.net Sorry to disappoint (again): https://blogs.nasa.gov/planetarydefense/2025/02/24/latest-calculations-conclude-asteroid-2024-yr4-now-poses-no-significant-threat-to-earth-in-2032-and-beyond/

@bender@twtxt.net And if that rock won’t hit us, there still is a chance in 2038, to get everything shut down. 🤓

@movq@www.uninformativ.de You are right. Like I said in my (german only post) to the election results: “It saddens me and makes me think.” …

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org, @movq@www.uninformativ.de well, there goes my theory. We (the people) keep insisting on fudging things up.

() @movq@www.uninformativ.de / @ well, I was wrong. It doesn’t merit congratulations. Boy, that 2032 asteroid is starting to look quite appealing…

I spent this Monday afternoon back from work, drawing myself as the “you made it to Friday sailors” dog. Totally unrelated to the 3 hours wasted on meetings, pretending to discuss great suggestions from high management, nobody else wants to implement.
Link to OG meme: https://youtu.be/z8x3JS7pP14

@falsifian@www.falsifian.org Neat, I got the principle, so mission accomplished. :-)

I have configured my vim to use a tab width of four. So, I noticed that especially https://www.falsifian.org/blog/2021/06/04/catalytic/reachability_with_stack.cc (but also partially the other C++ file) mixes tabs and spaces for indentation. :-)

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I didn’t, so it’s working fine. :-) I should rotate me as well.

Na, you’re spot on, @movq@www.uninformativ.de! The result is an expected, terrible disaster. It just seems the absolute catastrophy is delayed for another four years.

Even though I’m the last one who wouldn’t be glad about banning the nazis, I’m not a fan of banning parties in general. I believe that a healthy democracy has to withstand extremists. Whether it’s still healthy is debatable. To me it appeared that the failed attempts to ban NPD in the past actually helped them gain more supporters.

The big established parties are all bad traitors. I blame them and their actions to help raise AfD. They just give a fuck about the ordinary people, they’re only concerned about their private gain and power. I bet nothing will change, to the contrary, it will only get worse. The winners do have the chance to turn it for the better, but they just will not. No way, unfortunately.

But then, we must not forget that people are just dumb and stupid, too. Also, that won’t change. AfD won’t help these idiots either, but they still vote for them. I also don’t understand how there is still so much support for the other big parties left. Education is important. Very important. But I have the impression that we’re lacking it.

@bender@twtxt.net @prologic@twtxt.net The outcome was to be expected but it’s still pretty catastrophic. Here’s an overview:

Image

East Germany is dominated by AfD. Bavaria is dominated by CSU (it’s always been that way, but this is still a conservative/right party). Black is CDU, the other conservative/right party.

The guy who’s probably going to be chancellor recently insulted the millions of people who did demonstrations for peace/anti-right. “Idiots”, “they’re nuts”, stuff like that. This was before the election. He already earned the nickname “Mini Trump”.

Both the right and the left got more votes this time, but the left only gained 3.87 percentage points while the right (CDU/CSU + AfD) gained 14.72:

Image

The Green party lost, SPD (“mid-left”) lost massively (worst result in their history). FDP also lost. These three were the previous government.

This isn’t looking good at all, especially when you think about what’s going to happen in the next 4 years. What will CDU (the winner) do? Will they be able to “turn the ship around”? Highly unlikely. They are responsible for the current situation (in large parts). They will continue to do business as usual. They will do anything but help poor/ordinary people. This means that AfD will only get stronger over the next 4 years.

Our only hope would be to ban AfD altogether. So far, nobody but non-profit organizations is willing to do that (for unknown reasons).

I don’t even know if banning the AfD would help (but it’s probably our best/only option). AfD politicians are nothing but spiteful, hateful, angry, similar to Trump/MAGA. If you’ve seen these people talk and still vote for them, then you must be absolutely filled with rage and hatred. Very concerning.

Correct me if I’m wrong, @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org, @arne@uplegger.eu, @johanbove@johanbove.info.

@arne@uplegger.eu

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