@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Yeah just move your feet. It’s totally fine. Don’t worry about it.

Found this: https://notabug.org/tinyrabbit/gemini-antenna. Maybe it have some user-agent alternative?

Yes. I have only twtxt and scp hook in twet and it enough

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I couldn’t find any references to this anywhere either.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Like now?

Wait, webfinger? Mandate this ruin philosophy “twtxt is just text file”

Can i change identify without ruining federation? it is important because i can change server and want migrate all my data

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I have no idea to be honest 🤣 I’m actually not really sure how you can ruin something be improving it 🤦‍♂️

I dont think that is ruined twtxt. Twtxt v2 is just standartize twtxt and yarn extensions. What is bad?

We:

• Drop # url= from the spec.
  
• We don’t adopt # uuid = – Something @anth@a.9srv.net also mentioned (see below)
  

We instead use the @nick@domain to identify your feed in the first place and use that as the identify when calculating Twt hashes <id> + <timestamp> + <content>. Now in an ideal world I also agree, use WebFinger for this and expect that for the most part you’ll be doing a WebFinger lookup of @user@domain to fetch someone’s feed in the first place.

The only problem with WebFinger is should this be mandated or a recommendation?

Something @anth@a.9srv.net said on ITC

17:42 I should also note in there that it doesn’t address the two things i really want it to: mandate utf-8 (which should be easy to fit in) and something for better @ mentions.

I actually agree with in both counts and it got me thinking…

I hear about Gemini Antenna as User Agent alternative but cant find any information

you’ve ruined twtxt

Not sure what to say here. 🤔

Thank you for all the hard work put into the project.

Thank you to whomever said this! 🙇‍♂️

Many of the faces go hand in hand or depend on the selected protocol a feed is published with or client features. I’m pretty sure people interpret different things into these terms.

See previous. Sorry 😞

Not sure what to think about the stack ranking question. I care that it’s a simple text file i can just stick on my server. Security, identity, &c come out of how I manage the server.

See previous.

I don’t know what all the facets mean. E.g. what’s the difference between “Integrity” and “Authenticity”?

Yes, I totally get where you’re coming from. However after ~22 results, I think y’all have figured out how to rank them appropriately anyway 🤣

Sharing the comments of the poll (anonymous so I have no idea whom the comments are from):

your poll should include questions about markdown. personally i think inline bits like style, links, images are yes. block quotes, code blocks, bullet lists are mid. but tables and footnotes are no.

Yes sorry about this, I wasn’t able to change much after publishing the poll 😅

@slashdot@feeds.twtxt.net GTFO 🤣

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cc @xuu

@bender@twtxt.net I believe it is Unix-Unix Copy Protocol. Not Unix Copy-Copy Protocol.

83(4) GDPR sets forth fines of up to 10 million euros, or, in the case of an undertaking, up to 2% of its entire global turnover of the preceding fiscal year, whichever is higher.

Though I suppose it has to be the greater of the two. But I don’t even have one euro to start with.

@bender@twtxt.net Well as you’ve pointed out in the past, both protocol suffer from Discovery (as I’ve stated as well) and more often than not, users that publish Twtxt feeds over these protocols tend to just “point into the void” and it’s next to impossible to have any kind of “social interaction” (ignoring personal choices of course, if one’s feed is intended for 1-way …)

I think there’s a bug in yarnd hwoever:

$ yarnc debug https://sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt
...
bqor23a 2024-09-26T11:09:28-07:00	if twtxt 2 is dropping gemini support, i will probably move on and spend more time on my gemini social zine protocol instead. i think the direction of the protocol is probably fine, but for me web is a tier 2 publishing channel. if the choice is between gemini and http i'm always going to pick gemini. its been a fun ride, but i guess this is where i get off.

The yarnc CLI tool and the lextwt parser we use in yarnd correctly parses the feed and sets the Twter.HashingURI to the latest # url = found in the feed. However my pod hasn’t picked this up 😢 I follow @cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org as https://sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt

@prologic@twtxt.net I will not be following anyone on those two protocols. Can’t care less.

Gemini/Gopher Twtxt feeds account for less than 1% in existence:

$ total=$(inspect-db yarns.db | jq -r '.Value.URL' | awk -F'//' '{if ($1 ~ /^https?/) print "http/https:"; else print $1}' | sort | uniq -c | awk '{sum+=$1} END {print sum}'); inspect-db yarns.db | jq -r '.Value.URL' | awk -F'//' '{if ($1 ~ /^https?/) print "http/https:"; else print $1}' | sort | uniq -c | awk -v total="$total" '{printf "%d %s %.2f%%\n", $1, $2, ($1/total)*100}' | sort -r
7 gemini: 0.66%
4 gopher: 0.38%
1046 http/https: 98.96%

Note however this doesn’t solve the problem of Caching at all. It just works around it and with enough clients fetching a Gopher/Gemini feed, this # refresh becomes useless anyway at a certain point of scale.

@bender@twtxt.net Well this is the thing really. Gopher and Gemini are very broken ways to distributed content. Broken in the sense that for Twtxt either support a) caching in any way shape or form b) discovery in any way shape or form.

This is a bit of a problem because if a Feed author complains (nad they have in the past) that their Gopher/Gemini feeds are being hit “too hard”, well that’s really kind of on them for choosing to host their feed on an ill advised protocol thatc cannot possibly support Caching at all.

This is primarily one of the reasons we introduced the idea of a “feed advised refresh interval” that clients SHOULD respect.

See: https://dev.twtxt.net/doc/metadataextension.html#refresh

refresh
This optional field is used by feed authors as a hint to clients to control how often they should fetch or update this feed.

The value of this field is seconds represented by an integer.

NOTE: An empty, bad, or unparsable value is ignored.

@bender@twtxt.net To be fair, this has never been a problem for folks that have/use stable Feed URI(s) 🤣

Oh, and I think I said this before, but just in case, fuck Gemini. Hell, fuck Gopher too. Bring on telnet, and UCCP. 😈

This is confirmed to be the case:

$ for url in gemini://sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt https://sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt //sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt; do yarnc hash -t '2024-09-26T11:09:28-07:00' -u "$url" "if twtxt 2 is dropping gemini support, i will probably move on and spend more time on my gemini social zine protocol instead. i think the direction of the protocol is probably fine, but for me web is a tier 2 publishing channel. if the choice is between gemini and http i'm always going to pick gemini. its been a fun ride, but i guess this is where i get off."; done
fk2af7q
7kvnpaq
bqor23a

Either way, it is the last time I do something like this. It turns on my fastidiousness, and kind of makes me feel uneasy. Will pause a bit longer from now on.

Yup confirmed!

# url = //sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt
# url = https://sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt
# url = gemini://sunshinegardens.org/~xjix/twtxt/tw.txt

@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org has changed the url of their feed (yet again) and changed every hash in their feed.

@antonio@twtxt.net is right to call this out. We should drop the reliance on the # url metadata field and in fact we should probably just drop this entirely from the spec and go with # uuid as the basis of a feed’s identity.

Even though this happens very rarely (feeds moving to new locations) it more frequently happens with folks that try to serve their feed from Gopher, HTTP and Gemini.

@bender@twtxt.net Hmm I think I know why…

2024-09-27T01:28:53Z	(#bqor23a) @<cuaxolotl https://sunshinegardens.org/~xj9/twtxt/tw.txt> Wait, what!? We're dropping Gemini support!?

From @aelaraji@aelaraji.com’s feed. I think @cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org doesn’t do threading properly, I’ve run into this once before. I’m not sure what client they use? 🤔

@bender@twtxt.net Hmm I think I know why…

2024-09-27T01:28:53+00:00	(#bqor23a) @<cuaxolotl https://sunshinegardens.org/~xj9/twtxt/tw.txt> Wait, what!? We're dropping Gemini support!?

From @aelaraji@aelaraji.com’s feed. I think @cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org doesn’t do threading properly, I’ve run into this once before. I’m not sure what client they use? 🤔

@prologic@twtxt.net yes, it has gotten kind of messy. Someone deleted/edited. That’s the only explanation.

Search engine doesn’t know about it either: https://search.twtxt.net/twt/bqor23a

@bender@twtxt.net Re that broken thread (#bqor23a). Its the same one. My pod doesn’t have the Root Twt: https://twtxt.net/twt/bqor23a => 404 Not Found.

How in the hell did you even reply to this in the first place?

@prologic@twtxt.net and this one? It’s madness!

@prologic@twtxt.net what was this in reply to? 🤭

Hmmm https://twtxt.net/twt/bqor23a => 404 Not Found 🤣

@bender@twtxt.net What was this in reply to? 🤔

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Probably not.

@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org Context?

(#bqor23a) @aelaraji@aelaraji.com
@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org We probably won’t in fairness. i only called it out because discovery is made much harder with Gopher and Gemini. Caching is also impossible too.

@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org We probably won’t in fairness. I only called it out because discovery is made much harder with Gopher and Gemini. Caching is also impossible too.

Last chance to have your say before tomorrow’s meetup:

http://polljunkie.com/poll/xdgjib/twtxt-v2

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com it is not.

@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org Wait, what!? We’re dropping Gemini support!?