The real crux of the matter is this whole moving feeds around to different uri(s). This makes things hard. I think it’s worth revisiting @anth ‘ …
The real crux of the matter is this whole moving feeds around to different uri(s). This makes things hard. I think it’s worth revisiting @anth @a.9srv.net ’s UUID idea for its merits. ⌘ Read more

(#rjapt4a) @movq I’m assuming jenny is doing some kind of validation and verifying if that Twt really does exist on the feed uri? 🤔 But the …
@movq @www.uninformativ.de I’m assuming jenny is doing some kind of validation and verifying if that Twt really does exist on the feed uri? 🤔 But the hash is all kinds of wrong now because @gallowsgryph for whatever reason decided it might be a good idea to have a 2nd # url that doesn’t actually point to t … ⌘ Read more

(#rjapt4a) @bender@bender @movq AFAICT this isn’t a bug with yarnd, but a. bug with the feed itself. The feed is now completely broken in t …
@bender @movq @www.uninformativ.de AFAICT this isn’t a bug with yarnd, but a. bug with the feed itself. The feed is now completely broken in that regard. See #27nifeq ⌘ Read more

(#mowsvgq) @gallowsgryph Your feed is a bit off. I don’t think it makes sense to have a 2nd # url field that doesn’t point to the same Twtxt f …
@gallowsgryph @twtxt.prismdragon.net Your feed is a bit off. I don’t think it makes sense to have a 2nd # url field that doesn’t point to the same Twtxt feed 🤔 ⌘ Read more

(#mowsvgq) @bender@bender I’m not sure I get it 🤣
@bender I’m not sure I get it 🤣 ⌘ Read more

(#mowsvgq) What’s going on?
What’s going on? ⌘ Read more

(#rjapt4a) Is there a bug on my side?
Is there a bug on my side? ⌘ Read more

(#64gdl7q) @bender@bender Who did that? 🤔🤣
@bender Who did that? 🤔🤣 ⌘ Read more

@movq@www.uninformativ.de How hard would it be to implement something like (#<2024-10-25T17:15:50Z https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt>)in jenny as a replacement for (#twthash) and have it not care about if is http(s) or a g-protocol?

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl Speed is an issue for the client software, not the format itself, but yes I agree that it makes the most sense to append post to the end of the file. I’m referring to the definition that it’s the first url = in the file that is the one that has to be used for the twthash computation, which is a too arbitrary way of defining something that breaks treading time and time again. And this is the case for not using url+date+message = twthash.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de LOL, you are late! :-P Stores around started selling Christmas’s decorations early September. Like, wow! Usually the earliest is after Halloween, more often after Thanksgiving.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de interesting! So, what would the fix be, in this case, do you know? Aware of this, @prologic@twtxt.net?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de, having an issue fetching a twtxt context. I am getting:

Trying to fetch "#mowsvgq" from Yarn pod https://txt.sour.is ...
Trying to fetch "#mowsvgq" from Yarn pod https://twtxt.net ...
Twt could not be found

Yet, the twtxt is there: https://twtxt.net/twt/mowsvgq. Bug, or something else?

(#qaaeicq) @bender@bender This is true 🤣 I’d you don’t specify one; one will be auto-generated 🤣
@bender This is true 🤣 I’d you don’t specify one; one will be auto-generated 🤣 ⌘ Read more

(#uuuctoa) > The text parameters are percent-decoded before matching. Dash (-), ampersand (&), and comma (,) characters in text parameters are p …

The text parameters are percent-decoded before matching. Dash (-), ampersand (&), and comma (,) characters in text parameters are percent-encoded to avoid being interpreted as part of the text directive syntax. ⌘ Read more

What if i want to delete avatar? Im deleted avatar meta field but still see avatar on twtxt.net

Simplified twtxt - I want to suggest some dogmas or commandments for twtxt, from where we can work our way back to how to implement different feature like replies/treads:

1. It’s a text file, so you must be able to write it by hand (ie. no app logic) and read by eye. If you edit a post you change the content not the timestamp. Otherwise it will be considered a new post.

2. The order of lines in a twtxt.txt must not hold any significant. The file is a container and each line an atomic piece of information. You should be able to run sort on a twtxt.txt and it should still work.

3. Transport protocol should not matter, as long as the file served is the same. Http and https are preferred, so it is suggested that feed served via Gopher or Gemini also provide http(s).

4. Do we need more commandments?

@prologic@twtxt.net Why does twtxt.net still show my old avatar?

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl Welcome to the twt’verse 👋

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt finally someone read my blogpost ;)

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Thank you, and yes I got more on my websites https://darch.dk/vj/ and https://algorave.dk/videos/

@prologic huh? looks like someone flooding twtxt

THE LAST HUMAN POST ON THIS FEED IS MORE THAN FOUR YEARS OLD. PERHAPS TWTXT CLIENTS SHOULD THEN FETCH THE FEED VERY RARELY.

@sorenpeter ’s webmentions uses this trick: http://darch.dk/mentions-twtxt

Huh. I had long forgotten about text fragment URLs. Seems relevant for linking to discussions around linking to individual twtxt posts. https://alfy.blog/2024/10/19/linking-directly-to-web-page-content.html

@prologic@twtxt.net would you please check my web interface? is that a normal thing or am I missing something?

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Of course! 🤣 @xuu@txt.sour.is and I run saltyd 😅

@2024-10-09T08:11:00Z@twtxt.net It an easy way of twt-adressing by using the timestamp instead of a nick, which is arbitrary anyhow. Just my suggestion for a new reply-model ;)

@sorenpeter@darch.dk curious why you at mentioned a timestamp? 🤔

New post (mostly follow-up on the previous with a few new points) on the twtxt v2 discussion. http://a.9srv.net/b/2024-10-08

Setting up my twtxt site again

@prologic@twtxt.net currently? it wouldnt :D.

we would need to come up with a way of registering with multiple brokers that can i guess forward to a reader broker. something that will retry if needed. need to read into how simplex handles multi brokers

@prologic@twtxt.net currently? it wouldnt :D.

we would need to come up with a way of registering with multiple brokers that can i guess forward to a reader broker. something that will retry if needed. need to read into how simplex handles multi brokers

@bender@twtxt.net 🤣

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Agree. salty.im should allow the user to post multiple brokers on their webfinger so the client can find a working path.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Agree. salty.im should allow the user to post multiple brokers on their webfinger so the client can find a working path.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt What do you think of when you say “decentralized”?

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt salty.im needs a lot more work 🤞it is however designed to be 1000% decentralized 👌

@3r1c@3r1c.net I think I’m gonna like that blog. 😅 https://unixdigest.com/articles/is-the-madness-ever-going-to-end.html

@movq@www.uninformativ.de i’m sorry if I sound too contrarian. I’m not a fan of using an obscure hash as well. The problem is that of future and backward compatibility. If we change to sha256 or another we don’t just need to support sha256. But need to now support both sha256 AND blake2b. Or we devide the community. Users of some clients will still use the old algorithm and get left behind.

Really we should all think hard about how changes will break things and if those breakages are acceptable.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de i’m sorry if I sound too contrarian. I’m not a fan of using an obscure hash as well. The problem is that of future and backward compatibility. If we change to sha256 or another we don’t just need to support sha256. But need to now support both sha256 AND blake2b. Or we devide the community. Users of some clients will still use the old algorithm and get left behind.

Really we should all think hard about how changes will break things and if those breakages are acceptable.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Hmm that is worth trying. It is the same base Firefox I guess 🤔

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Yep seems alright! Really fast too. I’m still using my main Firefox in general cos.. well it’s set up so much and it’s hardened, profile running in RAM, all that crazy stuff that got it working the way I want 😂

But keeping a good eye on Zen Browser’s progress.

@prologic@twtxt.net yeah, sad, convoluted, dangerous state of affairs for just about everyone. :-(

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m sure you can somehow install something that calculates blake2b on OpenBSD. But it’s not part of the base system as a standalone CLI tool, there only appear to be Perl modules for it. The other SHA tools do exist.

@prologic@twtxt.net I wanted to wait for things to settle down. It’s still unclear to me in which direction we’re going – and if that new/different stuff is even possible to implement in jenny. That said, I’ve been really busy with private stuff these last few days, I’ve lost track of most of what you’re discussing. 🥴

If we stuck with Blake2b for Twt Hash(es); what do we think we need to reasonably go to in bit length/size?

=> https://gist.mills.io/prologic/194993e7db04498fa0e8d00a528f7be6

e.g: (turns out @xuu@txt.sour.is is right about Blak2b being easy/simple too!):

$ printf "%s\t%s\t%s" "https://example.com/twtxt.txt" "2024-09-29T13:30:00Z" "Hello World!" | b2sum -l 32 -t | awk '{ print $1 }'
7b8b79dd

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I’d love it if you write up a page for jenny 🙏 at https://twtxt.dev 🤞

@prologic@twtxt.net I think printf is a more portable option than echo -e for interpreting \t as tab. E.g. printf ‘%s\t%s\t%s’ “$url” “$time” “$text”. In general I always prefer printf over echo for anything non-trivial in unix shell scripts. See last paragraph of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_(command)#History

@sorenpeter@darch.dk oh, I thought we were settled on TABs for a while now, weren’t we? 🤔 The new website mentions TABs too. The command echo -e (on any shell?) will use \t for them.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org what are you building now? The things you are mentioning I couldn’t even start wrapping my head around them! 😅 They sure sound expensive, tough.

Thanks @david@collantes.us, good to know, but we need to agree on what character we use, otherwise the hashes will not be the same:)

@sorenpeter@darch.dk a TAB is simply \t. Just add it to that echo line, and that’s it.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com You could just remove the {getuser()} part because you added ~.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt No.

iirc in twtxt v2 it starts prohibited

This is not true. There are no issues supporting fetching feeds via Gemini/Gopher. This is totally fine. What will likely happen is “recommendations” and “drawbacks of using Gemini/Gopher”

Ok, i know how to command working (not sure), but seems it only grab from cache. Maybe make fetch from twtxt.net if hash not found?

@prologic@twtxt.net Regarding the new way of generating twt-hashes, to me it makes more sense to use tabs as separator instead of spaces, since the you can just copy/past a line directly from a twtxt-file that already go a tab between timestamp and message. But tabs might be hard to “type” when you are in a terminal, since it will activate autocomplete…🤔

Another thing, it seems that you sugget we only use the domain in the hash-creation and not the full path to the twtxt.txt

$ echo -e "https://example.com 2024-09-29T13:30:00Z Hello World!" | sha256sum - | awk '{ print $1 }' | base64 | head -c 12

should i delete gemini support from twet? iirc in twtxt v2 it starts prohibited. And all of my fields are https

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt am I understanding correctly that you do not have a desktop/laptop computer, but a pocket Android based one?

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I’ve just given it a try on android/termux and got it to work, I can’t promise it won’t break something else (because i definitely don’t know what I’m doing) but here’s what I broke 😅:

~/src/jenny $ git diff
diff --git a/jenny b/jenny
index ada8da2..8ae9a06 100755
--- a/jenny
+++ b/jenny
@@ -1194,7 +1194,7 @@ if __name__ == '__main__':
     if args.edit:
	edit_twt_file(app)
     elif args.fetch:
-        with DirectoryLock(f'/tmp/jenny-{getuser()}.run'):
+        with DirectoryLock(expanduser('~/tmp/jenny-{getuser()}.run')):
             retrieve_all(app)
     elif args.last_seen:
	 print('Feeds last seen at (times are local time), oldest first:')

and of course make sure you mkdir ~/tmp

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Sorry I meant twet 🤦‍♂️

It has twts cache which used if timeline is set to jew. Maybe i.should fork twet to make wishes like newlines (i see two squares), showing conversations, showing twts if not found in cache and parsing medata to configure url, nick and followers (currenly it duplicated in config and twtxt file)

There we go!

=> twtxt.dev

🥳

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt twt probably isn’t the best client I’m afraid. It doesn’t really cache twts by their key (hash) to display threads properly. Jenny however does 👌

twet display twts in raw format with some formatting (sadly no newlines). And for reply messages i just seen (#hash). But which text hidden on hash? currenly im open twtxt.net/twt/hash to see this

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Thanks! I’ve almost come up with my own theme already 🤣 I actually don’t really want to use Hugo at all, I find it too complicated. But it is pretty popular so I thought maybe I’d rip-off a nice theme… Hmmm 🧐

Anyway, What I really normally use for a lot of my static sites is zs

I’m looking to develop a static site for twtxt.dev – A domain I own and have wanted to use for developer and specification docs for Twtxt.

Can anyone recommend a few Hugo themes you like?

All of the dev.twtxt.net content would move over as well.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt see jenny.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I am not sure I am understanding what you mean. Can you explain?

Lol, im just join for several minutes. Wait, Merkle Trees in twtxt?

👋 Thanks for joining us on our Sept monthly Yarn.social meetup today y’all 🙇‍♂️ We had @david@collantes.us @sorenpeter@darch.dk @doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt @falsifian@www.falsifian.org and @xuu@txt.sour.is 💪 Nice turn out! (not all at once of course, as we normally run this over 4 hours as we span many time zones!)

Things we talked about:

• Decentralised vs. Distributed
  
• Use of SHA256 for Twt Hash(es)
  
• We solved Edits! 🥳
  
• UUID(s) probably won’t work! (susceptible to sppofing)
  
• Helped @sorenpeter@darch.dk write some PHP to process/parse User-Agent and service his feed via a custom PHP script 😅
  
• @falsifian@www.falsifian.org introduced himself 👌
  
• Talked about Merkle Trees 🌳
  

Did I miss anything? 🤔

@prologic@twtxt.net YES James, it should be up to the client to deal with changes like edits and deletions. And putting this load on the clients, location-addressing with make this a lot easier since what is says it: Look in this file at this timestamp, did anything change or went missing? (And then threading will not break;)

@bender@twtxt.net It’s the experience of an ordinary person in a strange place where memories are disappearing with the help of the Memory Police. The setting feels contemporary (to the book’s 1994 publication date) rather than futuristic, except for some unexplained stuff about memories.

@prologic@twtxt.net

See https://dev.twtxt.net

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I like that collection and “twtxt v2” feels like a departure.

Maybe there’s an advantage to grouping it into one spec, but IMO that shouldn’t be done at the same time as introducing new untested ideas.

See https://yarn.social (especially this section: https://yarn.social/#self-host) – It really doesn’t get much simpler than this 🤣

Again, I like this existing simplicity. (I would even argue you don’t need the metadata.)

That page says “For the best experience your client should also support some of the Twtxt Extensions…” but it is clear you don’t need to. I would like it to stay that way, and publishing a big long spec and calling it “twtxt v2” feels like a departure from that. (I think the content of the document is valuable; I’m just carping about how it’s being presented.)

More thoughts about changes to twtxt (as if we haven’t had enough thoughts):

1. There are lots of great ideas here! Is there a benefit to putting them all into one document? Seems to me this could more easily be a bunch of separate efforts that can progress at their own pace:
   

1a. Better and longer hashes.

1b. New possibly-controversial ideas like edit: and delete: and location-based references as an alternative to hashes.

1c. Best practices, e.g. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

1d. Stuff already described at dev.twtxt.net that doesn’t need any changes.

1. We won’t know what will and won’t work until we try them. So I’m inclined to think of this as a bunch of draft ideas. Maybe later when we’ve seen it play out it could make sense to define a group of recommended twtxt extensions and give them a name.

2. Another reason for 1 (above) is: I like the current situation where all you need to get started is these two short and simple documents:
   https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/twtxtfile.html
   https://twtxt.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user/discoverability.html
   and everything else is an extension for anyone interested. (Deprecating non-UTC times seems reasonable to me, though.) Having a big long “twtxt v2” document seems less inviting to people looking for something simple. (@prologic@twtxt.net you mentioned an anonymous comment “you’ve ruined twtxt” and while I don’t completely agree with that commenter’s sentiment, I would feel like twtxt had lost something if it moved away from having a super-simple core.)

3. All that being said, these are just my opinions, and I’m not doing the work of writing software or drafting proposals. Maybe I will at some point, but until then, if you’re actually implementing things, you’re in charge of what you decide to make, and I’m grateful for the work.

@prologic@twtxt.net Done. Also, I went ahead and made two changes: changed hexadecimal to base64 for hashes (wasn’t sure if anyone objected), and changed “MUST follow the chain” to “SHOULD follow the chain.

@prologic@twtxt.net Thanks for pointing out it lasts four hours. That’s a big window! I wonder when most people will be on. I might aim for halfway through unless I hear otherwise. (12:00Z is a bit early for me.)

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org It’s from 12pm to 4pm UTC so if you can make it at all, that’d be great 👍

@bender@twtxt.net I am also in camp no edit signals. deletes only breaks the head of a thread. all the replies are unaffected.

@bender@twtxt.net I am also in camp no edit signals. deletes only breaks the head of a thread. all the replies are unaffected.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org that sounds truly idyllic! 🤭

@bender@twtxt.net yeah, that’s what I said, and linked. Want more?

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Are you sure? Not seen the mail yet…

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Ooops you might want to re-send that to james instead 🤣

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt My Salty public key is:

kex1fhxntuc0av7q48hlfj970ve297dzzghn82wp5cahr9r92y8rlrqqtwp983

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Do you have a sample Caddy log file you can supply? I’ll see if we can improve the tool 👌

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Fot a sample access log? Which tool are you using?

Yes. I have only twtxt and scp hook in twet and it enough

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I couldn’t find any references to this anywhere either.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Like now?

Wait, webfinger? Mandate this ruin philosophy “twtxt is just text file”

I dont think that is ruined twtxt. Twtxt v2 is just standartize twtxt and yarn extensions. What is bad?

you’ve ruined twtxt

Not sure what to say here. 🤔

@bender@twtxt.net I believe it is Unix-Unix Copy Protocol. Not Unix Copy-Copy Protocol.

@bender@twtxt.net I believe it is Unix-Unix Copy Protocol. Not Unix Copy-Copy Protocol.

@bender@twtxt.net Re that broken thread (#bqor23a). Its the same one. My pod doesn’t have the Root Twt: https://twtxt.net/twt/bqor23a => 404 Not Found.

How in the hell did you even reply to this in the first place?

@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org Wait, what!? We’re dropping Gemini support!?

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com ooooh! It’s that kind mission! /me stands, salutes, turns around, and exits the room. LOL.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com why, having a party with lots of libations? LOL.

@prologic@twtxt.net that “little database that could” is simply amazing, isn’t it? I run Conduwuit (nevermind, this one is RocksDB), and GoToSocial using it as a backend, no issues. And, of course, sqlite is the database of choice for a lot of things under iOS.