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a few async ideas for later

The editing process needs a lot of consideration and compromises.

From one side, editing and deleting it’s necessary IMO. People will do it anyway, and personally I like to edit my texts, so I’d put some effort on make it work.
Should we keep a history of edits? Should we hash every edit to avoid abuse? Should we mark internally a twt as deleted, but keeping the replies?

I think that’s part of a more complete ‘thread’ extension, although I’d say it’s worth to agree on something reflecting the real usage in the wild, along with what people usually do on other platforms.

looks good to me!

About alice’s hash, using SHA256, I get 96473b4f or 96473B4F for the last 8 characters. I’ll add it as an implementation example.
The idea of including it besides the follow URL is to avoid calculating it every time we load the file (assuming the client did that correctly), and helps to track replies across the file with a simple search.

Also, watching your example I’m thinking now that instead of {url=96473B4F,id=1} which is ambiguous of which URL we are referring to, it could be something like:
{reply_to=[URL_HASH]_[TWT_ID]} / {reply_to=96473B4F_1}
That way, the ‘full twt ID’ could be 96473B4F_1.

True. Though if the idea turns out to be better.. then community will adopt it.

if you look at the subject for that twt you will see that it uses the extended hash format to include a URL address.

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@bmallred@staystrong.run Any edit automatically changes the twt hash, because the hash is built over the hash URL, message timestamp and message text. https://twtxt.dev/exts/twt-hash.html So, it is only a problem, if somebody replied to your original message with the old hash. The original message suddenly doesn’t exist anymore and the reply becomes detached, orphaned, whatever you wanna call it. Threading doesn’t break, though, if nobody replied to your message.

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I was on the hunt for new twts and found what I was looking for. Welcome to my timeline:
@javivf@adn.org.es @lafe@tilde.club @melyanna@tilde.club @nff@www.noizhardware.com @shreyan@twtxt.net

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@andros@twtxt.andros.dev I believe you have just reproduced the bug… it looks like you’ve replayed to a twt but the hash is wrong. I can see the hash here from Jenny, but it doesn’t look like it corresponds to any{twt,thing}. if you check it out on any yarn instance it won’t look like a replay.

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My hypothesis about that thing breaking my twts is that it might have something to do with the parenthesis surrounding the root twt hash in the replay twt-A when I replay to it with fork-twt-B; I imagine elisp interpreting those as a s-expression thus breaking the generation precess of hash (#twt-A) before prepending it to for-twt-B … but then I’m too ignorant to figure out how to test my theory (heck I couldn’t even recalculate the hashes myself correctly in bash xD). I’ll keep trying tho.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev yes, that usually happens when twts get edited and we just made a gentlemen agreement to avoid edits as much as possible (at least for the time being). But the thing is, That is not what’s happening with my broken twts’ hashes. Since I’ve bee mostly replaying to my own twts as a test and I know for sure that I haven’t edited any. (I usually fork-replay instead of edit a twt when needed)

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@prologic@twtxt.net Agreed! But clients can hallucinate and generate wrong hashes aka Lies 🤣 Also, If you chheck your own twt on twtxt.net, it looks like a root twt instead of a replay.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Here’s that twtxt-el test replay to my last twt! let’s see how it goes.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev hmmm… pretty strange, isn’t it? replaying to threads worked perfectly, I’ve only had that problem trying to replay to a twt that was part of a thread.

As an example, this one is a Fork-Replay from Jenny. My next twt will be a replay to this exact twt but from twtxt-el as a test.
Then I’will file an issue if it doesn’t behave the way it’s supposed to. Cheers!

@prologic@twtxt.net Are you sure? xD … it was supposed to be a replay to another twt, but the twt hash is wrong (I think).

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I really like the concept of “twt”. It’s the perfect blend of txt and twtxt. An abbreviated form. Even though it’s the name given to posts, I personally find it very nice.
#twtxt

I don’t think so, at least the tests I did passed. If you’re pretty sure it’s a bug, please create an issue in the repository with the specific case and I’ll investigate it.
There are 2 buttons to make replicas, one makes a replica in the thread where the twt is located (this is the one that should be used the most, as it serves a thread), the other creates a replica to a specific twt.
I’ll let you know a bit about the status: I’m just now implementing the thread screen. There you can be sure where you are. It’s a bit confusing right now, sorry. I think the client is still in alpha. When I’ve finished what I’m doing, and the direct message system, I’ll freeze development and focus on creating more tests, looking for bugs and making small visual adjustments.

@andros@twtxt.andros.dev is it me or twtxt-el generates a wrong twt hash when I use the [ ↳ Reply to twt ] button?

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among these options, 3

Although I like it more “twt”, without the dot and with a t at the end

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@prologic@twtxt.net Of course you don’t notice it when yarnd only shows at most the last n messages of a feed. As an example, check out mckinley’s message from 2023-01-09T22:42:37Z. It has “[Scheduled][Scheduled][Scheduled]“… in it. This text in square brackets is repeated numerous times. If you search his feed for closing square bracket followed by an opening square bracket (][) you will find a bunch more of these. It goes without question he never typed that in his feed. My client saves each twt hash I’ve explicitly marked read. A few days ago, I got plenty of apparently years old, yet suddenly unread messages. Each and every single one of them containing this repeated bracketed text thing. The only conclusion is that something messed up the feed again.

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@eapl.me@eapl.me Yeah, you need some kind of storage for that. But chances are that there’s already a cache in place. Ideally, the client remembers etags or last modified timestamps in order to reduce unnecessary network traffic when fetching feeds over HTTP(S).

A newsreader without read flags would be totally useless to me. But I also do not subscribe to fire hose feeds, so maybe that’s a different story with these. I don’t know.

To me, filtering read messages out and only showing new messages is the obvious solution. No need for notifications in my opinion.

There are different approaches with read flags. Personally, I like to explicitly mark messages read or unread. This way, I can think about something and easily come back later to reply. Of course, marking messages read could also happen automatically. All decent mail clients I’ve used in my life offered even more advanced features, like delayed automatic marking.

All I can say is that I’m super happy with that for years. It works absolutely great for me. The only downside is that I see heaps of new, despite years old messages when a bug causes a feed to be incorrectly updated (https://twtxt.net/twt/tnsuifa). ;-)

Definitely something going on with replies. This one was replying to the wrong twt and even when I got clever and pasted the right hash it didn’t work.

@prologic@twtxt.net the code block is the cause of https://txt.sour.is/twt/zn2kg7q

and the second? i get POST errors when i try to submit the webform.

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@mckinley@twtxt.net And there is the bracketed text duplication bug again… Actually with lots of twts. Did you edit a twt? Do you remember? /cc @prologic@twtxt.net

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Well, that’s another bug: The search https://twtxt.net/search?q=%22LOOOOL%2C+great+programming+tutorial+music%22 yields the wrong hash. It should have been poyndha instead.

alert the twt police!!

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I have a paper deadline coming up, so will everyone please stop writing twts for the next 48 hours, thanks.

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@andros@twtxt.andros.dev Sweeeeet! Just gave it a try, you’ve done a wonderful work 🫡 I wanted to replay from there but couldn’t go past the first page of the feed. It kept freezing on me and complaining about some bad Url (as mentioned on the test twt), so I’ll have to dig through my follow list and see where I effed up this time. 😅

Here’s a twt from @andros@twtxt.andros.dev ’s new version of Twtxt-el 🥳 It feels WAaaaaY better! although it freezes on me as soon as I navigate to the next page complaining about some bad url, but the chronological sorting of the feed as well as the navigation buttons (links?) are a great addition. Looking forward to the next update already! 😁 🥳🥳🥳

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Ok, it’s really spam account: https://twtxt.net/twt/xu3u7zq . Damn spammers. Can you delete this?

https://twtxt.net/twt/nbl4xfq

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@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org @prologic@twtxt.net 😆 There was something weird going on with my #Timeline instance, the text input box was visible even though I was logged out and I was able to twt from it … It has to do with cache because it wouldn’t disappear unless I whip my website’s cache from the browser.

Poke @sorenpeter@darch.dk and @eapl.me@eapl.me I have no Idea how to reproduce this.

It seems related to us poor single user pods not getting the trust to share twts.. which it seems to still untrust on restart for me.

@movq, @prologic@twtxt.net when navigating to a Yarn. If the head twt is missing then the whole thread is not accessible. It only returns an error. so i have no way to view any of the replies within the thread other than the end twt.

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Or using the same twt hash method, but only for the URL, to generate the nick, if it doesn’t exist, like so, @5vxo4ia@twtxt.net

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Lol why you and bender twts are rendered but my with simular content are skipp3d? Upd: nevermind, i’m dumb, my twt are created in future because i type date -iS and replaces +03:00 with Z: https://twtxt.net/twt/yctmi7a

@doesnmppsflt@doesnm.p.psf.lt Not sure which bug you’re referring to. 🤔 (Did I forget?)

Those long IDs like (#113797927355322708) are simply part of that feed. Looks like the author just dumps ActivityPub IDs into twtxt. I think this used to work in the past, but the corresponding spec (https://twtxt.dev/exts/hash-tag.html) has been deprecated and jenny doesn’t support – actually, jenny never supported that.

jenny can only group threads by exactly one criterium (because it writes a Message-ID into the mail file) and that’s the regular twt hash. So, anything else, like people doing “#CoolTopic”, isn’t possible.

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I’m still making progress with the Emacs client. I’m proud to say that the code that is responsible for reading the feeds is almost finished, including: Twt Hash Extension, Twt Subject Extension, Multiline Extension and Metadata Extension. I’m fine-tuning some tests and will soon do the first buffer that displays the twts.

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@bmallred@staystrong.run did you rotate your twtxt file or something happened to your twts? 🤔 asking just in case…

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hmm… apparently the invalid twts are the latest ones I’d posted from Timeline but highly probably because I’d tried to restore them manually, after unintentionally overriding my twtxt file with one that was out of date 🤦

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Want this API for Goryon or just Goryon with support to just twtxt.txt. I can’t read timeline without visible replies and missing twts

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