@wbknl@twtxt.net adopting the smolweb philosophy for my digital life

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl I have separate mail boxes for private and work, but flattened both to have a simpler structure. For work, where we use Outlook, I am using categories for organising the mails and privately I am using Vivaldi’s labels system. The main idea is to use search and grouping through dynamic saved searches instead of static folders.

Would it make sense for twtxt v.2 to do something similar to bluesky, where you use a domain as you handle by creating a specific DNS record as explained by: https://matthiasott.com/notes/how-to-set-your-domain-as-your-bluesky-handle

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt You probably don’t know this, but it is also self-signed. I also don’t give two shit™ about its validity or expiry 🤣

@quark@ferengi.one Yeah i’m in deep red here. the governor race is getting split between a red and a maga that is running a write in.. but even if they split the vote 50-50% they will still be greater than what the blue will get.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com just make sure to howl, two or three times! 😂

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com I thought I had replied to this, but don’t see it, so my apologies. I like macOS, and Apple machines are the only ones who can run it. Granted, there are Hackintoshes, but those are on the way out, sadly, because of Apple’s move to their own CPU chips. So, no, a ZimaBoard won’t do the trick. 😅

Wives are something else, my friend. “Handle with care” applies all the time. 🤭

@prologic@twtxt.net hahahaha! If only was that easy. Wife is pretty stressed out at work with new duties. At the same time people are getting laid off. So, it truly is a dilemma, and something that must be done carefully. I can wait. I waited this long, I can wait a bit more. Maybe and end-of-year gift for both of us?

@prologic@twtxt.net woot, awesome! I am using ux2028 twice in my description. May lower it to once, but need some reference first. 😅

So, @prologic@twtxt.net, Yarn isn’t rendering the metadata as described on the format documentation. That is, ux2028 is ignored when Yarn renders the description metadata.

@xuu@txt.sour.is done, and done, and done. The three of us dropped our mail-in ballots, and received confirmation they are counted. Living in a red state (well, kid said it is more like purple now) makes me sad, and mad, but I have done what I can—and that includes explaining things to others, and encouraging them to vote.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt What Hallway link?

Seems Hallway link in https://indieweb.org/twtxt is broken and redirects to main page. Is it abandoned?

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt May I ask which hardware you have? SSD or HDD? How much RAM?

I might be spoiled and very privileged here. Even though my PC is almost 12 years old now, it does have an SSD and tons of RAM (i.e., lots of I/O cache), so starting mutt and opening the mailbox takes about 1-2 seconds here. I hardly even notice it. But I understand that not everybody has fast machines like that. 🫤

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt right, jenny isn’t the problem, it’s your platform of choice. The fetching of archives doesn’t happen all time (once only, right @movq?), but yes, depending on the amount of feeds you follow that first time might take a while.

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m grateful for this accident. I find browsing twtxt.net useful even though I don’t have an account there. I do it when I can’t use Jenny because I only have my phone, or if I want to see messages I might have missed. I know it’s not guaranteed to catch everything, but it’s pretty good, even if it’s not intentional.

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl I use Jenny to add to a local copy of my twtxt.txt file, and then manually push it to my web servers. I prefer timestamps to end with “Z” rather than “+00:00” so I modified Jenny to use that format. I mostly follow conversations using Jenny, but sometimes I check twtxt.net, which could catch twts I missed.

@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org This is largely by accident and not on purpose:

Lately I’ve been browsing twtxt.net since they aggregate most of the known network

@codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl I have some shell scripts that handle some of the log formatting details, but I mostly write my mesages by hand. Lately I’ve been browsing twtxt.net since they aggregate most of the known network. I have a couple of demo aggregators sitting around, but I’m in the middle of some infra rebuilds so a lot of my services are offline rn. They’re both built on a simple social graph analysis that extracts urls for your direct follows the follows listed on each of those feeds (friend-of-a-friend replication). certain formatting operations are awkward with my setup, so I may write an app of some kind in the future. likely gemini-based, but I have a number of projects ahead of that one in the queue.

@david@collantes.us How much of a computer does it have to be? Would a ZimaBoard do the trick? I don’t have a wife, so I wouldn’t know any better 😅

How about storing the contents of the twtxt.txt file in TXT DNS records? :-P Like so:

dig +short txt poem.netbros.com | sed 's/[\" ]//g' | base64 -d

@prologic@twtxt.net shut that down, man! I’ll give you a nickel for it! 🤭

@bender@twtxt.net I try to avoid editing. I guess I would write 5/4, 6/4, etc, and hopefully my audience would be sympathetic to my failing.

Anyway, I don’t think my eccentric decision to number my twts in the style of other social media platforms is the only context where someone might write ¼ not meaning a quarter. E.g. January 4, to Americans.

I’m happy to keep overthinking this for as long as you are :-P

@bender@twtxt.net @prologic@twtxt.net I’m not exactly asking yarnd to change. If you are okay with the way it displayed my twts, then by all means, leave it as is. I hope you won’t mind if I continue to write things like 1/4 to mean “first out of four”.

What has text/markdown got to do with this? I don’t think Markdown says anything about replacing 1/4 with ¼, or other similar transformations. It’s not needed, because ¼ is already a unicode character that can simply be directly inserted into the text file.

What’s wrong with my original suggestion of doing the transformation before the text hits the twtxt.txt file? @prologic@twtxt.net, I think it would achieve what you are trying to achieve with this content-type thing: if someone writes 1/4 on a yarnd instance or any other client that wants to do this, it would get transformed, and other clients simply wouldn’t do the transformation. Every client that supports displaying unicode characters, including Jenny, would then display ¼ as ¼.

Alternatively, if you prefer yarnd to pretty-print all twts nicely, even ones from simpler clients, that’s fine too and you don’t need to change anything. My 1/4 -> ¼ thing is nothing more than a minor irritation which probably isn’t worth overthinking.

So I am really curious, now that I am building upon @sorenpeter@darch.dk’s Timeline app, how other users write/add their twtxt, and how you follow conversations. Comment svp!

Spent some time cleaning up my AoC code to get ready for December 1st. Anyone else doing it this year? @prologic@twtxt.net we have to setup a new team each year?

👋 PR to propose Feed Format Extension – Request for comment 🙏

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m not a yarnd user, so it doesn’t matter a whole lot to me, but FWIW I’m not especially keen on changing how I format my twts to work around yarnd’s quirks.

I wonder if this kind of postprocessing would fit better between composing (via yarnd’s UI) and publishing. So, if a yarnd user types ¼, it could get changed to ¼ in the twtxt.txt file for everyone to see, not just people reading through yarnd. But when I type ¼, meaning first out of four, as a non-yarnd user, the meaning wouldn’t get corrupted. I can always type ¼ directly if that’s what I really intend.

(This twt might be easier to understand if you read it without any transformations :-P)

Anyway, again, I’m not a yarnd user, so do what you will, just know you might not be seeing exactly what I meant.

@prologic@twtxt.net I’ll try and join next time :) I did not see your reply until now.

@prologic@twtxt.net yeah short Nick is going to be unique enough. There is always olong Nick that adds the domain for differentiation.

@sorenpeter@darch.dk I run Weechat headless on a VM and mostly connect via mobile or dwsktop. I use the android client or gliwing bear. Work blocks all comms on their always on MitM VPN so I cant in office anymore. So I just use mobile.

@slashdot@feeds.twtxt.net Ugh, do we really need more brainrot, even if it is more open? 😅

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl Yes 🤞

@bender@twtxt.net True, I’m just not sure we can have it both way? 🤔 I can turn smartypants off, but I do seem to recall you wanted it on 🤣

@prologic@twtxt.net I wrote ¼ (one slash four) by which I meant “the first out of four”. twtxt.net is showing it as ¼, a single character that IMO doesn’t have that same meaning (it means 0.25). Similarly, ¾ got replaced with ¾ in another twt. It’s not a big deal. It just looks a little wrong, especially beside the 2/4 and 4/4 in my other two twts.

👋 FYI: I’ve put in place 301 Moved Permanently redirect(s) for https://dev.twtxt.net/ and all relevant pages to the new domain https://twtxt.dev 👌

@prologic@twtxt.net One could argue twtxt.net’s display formatting is a little over-eager here.

@prologic@twtxt.net that should be right

That’s very sad… Btw twtxt is more hardly to spam because of bad discovery. So you can only spam to your followers. Did you really want abandon best method of microblogging?

After the behaviour of a clearly very angry feed author over the past few days, I’m very tempted to give up on Twtxt and allow it to go back to being dead. What really is the point of building and supporting a way to exchange little pieces of text with one another in a completely decentralized way, if you’re just going to keep bumping up against such hostility? I don’t know why I do this anymore.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de How hard would it be to implement something like (#<2024-10-25T17:15:50Z https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt>)in jenny as a replacement for (#twthash) and have it not care about if is http(s) or a g-protocol?

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl Speed is an issue for the client software, not the format itself, but yes I agree that it makes the most sense to append post to the end of the file. I’m referring to the definition that it’s the first url = in the file that is the one that has to be used for the twthash computation, which is a too arbitrary way of defining something that breaks treading time and time again. And this is the case for not using url+date+message = twthash.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de LOL, you are late! :-P Stores around started selling Christmas’s decorations early September. Like, wow! Usually the earliest is after Halloween, more often after Thanksgiving.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de interesting! So, what would the fix be, in this case, do you know? Aware of this, @prologic@twtxt.net?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de, having an issue fetching a twtxt context. I am getting:

Trying to fetch "#mowsvgq" from Yarn pod https://txt.sour.is ...
Trying to fetch "#mowsvgq" from Yarn pod https://twtxt.net ...
Twt could not be found

Yet, the twtxt is there: https://twtxt.net/twt/mowsvgq. Bug, or something else?

What if i want to delete avatar? Im deleted avatar meta field but still see avatar on twtxt.net

Simplified twtxt - I want to suggest some dogmas or commandments for twtxt, from where we can work our way back to how to implement different feature like replies/treads:

1. It’s a text file, so you must be able to write it by hand (ie. no app logic) and read by eye. If you edit a post you change the content not the timestamp. Otherwise it will be considered a new post.

2. The order of lines in a twtxt.txt must not hold any significant. The file is a container and each line an atomic piece of information. You should be able to run sort on a twtxt.txt and it should still work.

3. Transport protocol should not matter, as long as the file served is the same. Http and https are preferred, so it is suggested that feed served via Gopher or Gemini also provide http(s).

4. Do we need more commandments?

@prologic@twtxt.net Why does twtxt.net still show my old avatar?

@Codebuzz@www.codebuzz.nl Welcome to the twt’verse 👋

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt finally someone read my blogpost ;)

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Thank you, and yes I got more on my websites https://darch.dk/vj/ and https://algorave.dk/videos/

@prologic huh? looks like someone flooding twtxt

THE LAST HUMAN POST ON THIS FEED IS MORE THAN FOUR YEARS OLD. PERHAPS TWTXT CLIENTS SHOULD THEN FETCH THE FEED VERY RARELY.

@sorenpeter ’s webmentions uses this trick: http://darch.dk/mentions-twtxt

Huh. I had long forgotten about text fragment URLs. Seems relevant for linking to discussions around linking to individual twtxt posts. https://alfy.blog/2024/10/19/linking-directly-to-web-page-content.html

@prologic@twtxt.net would you please check my web interface? is that a normal thing or am I missing something?

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Of course! 🤣 @xuu@txt.sour.is and I run saltyd 😅

@2024-10-09T08:11:00Z@twtxt.net It an easy way of twt-adressing by using the timestamp instead of a nick, which is arbitrary anyhow. Just my suggestion for a new reply-model ;)

@sorenpeter@darch.dk curious why you at mentioned a timestamp? 🤔

New post (mostly follow-up on the previous with a few new points) on the twtxt v2 discussion. http://a.9srv.net/b/2024-10-08

Setting up my twtxt site again

@prologic@twtxt.net currently? it wouldnt :D.

we would need to come up with a way of registering with multiple brokers that can i guess forward to a reader broker. something that will retry if needed. need to read into how simplex handles multi brokers

@bender@twtxt.net 🤣

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Agree. salty.im should allow the user to post multiple brokers on their webfinger so the client can find a working path.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt What do you think of when you say “decentralized”?

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt salty.im needs a lot more work 🤞it is however designed to be 1000% decentralized 👌

@3r1c@3r1c.net I think I’m gonna like that blog. 😅 https://unixdigest.com/articles/is-the-madness-ever-going-to-end.html

@movq@www.uninformativ.de i’m sorry if I sound too contrarian. I’m not a fan of using an obscure hash as well. The problem is that of future and backward compatibility. If we change to sha256 or another we don’t just need to support sha256. But need to now support both sha256 AND blake2b. Or we devide the community. Users of some clients will still use the old algorithm and get left behind.

Really we should all think hard about how changes will break things and if those breakages are acceptable.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Hmm that is worth trying. It is the same base Firefox I guess 🤔

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Yep seems alright! Really fast too. I’m still using my main Firefox in general cos.. well it’s set up so much and it’s hardened, profile running in RAM, all that crazy stuff that got it working the way I want 😂

But keeping a good eye on Zen Browser’s progress.

@prologic@twtxt.net yeah, sad, convoluted, dangerous state of affairs for just about everyone. :-(

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m sure you can somehow install something that calculates blake2b on OpenBSD. But it’s not part of the base system as a standalone CLI tool, there only appear to be Perl modules for it. The other SHA tools do exist.

@prologic@twtxt.net I wanted to wait for things to settle down. It’s still unclear to me in which direction we’re going – and if that new/different stuff is even possible to implement in jenny. That said, I’ve been really busy with private stuff these last few days, I’ve lost track of most of what you’re discussing. 🥴

If we stuck with Blake2b for Twt Hash(es); what do we think we need to reasonably go to in bit length/size?

=> https://gist.mills.io/prologic/194993e7db04498fa0e8d00a528f7be6

e.g: (turns out @xuu@txt.sour.is is right about Blak2b being easy/simple too!):

$ printf "%s\t%s\t%s" "https://example.com/twtxt.txt" "2024-09-29T13:30:00Z" "Hello World!" | b2sum -l 32 -t | awk '{ print $1 }'
7b8b79dd

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I’d love it if you write up a page for jenny 🙏 at https://twtxt.dev 🤞

@prologic@twtxt.net I think printf is a more portable option than echo -e for interpreting \t as tab. E.g. printf ‘%s\t%s\t%s’ “$url” “$time” “$text”. In general I always prefer printf over echo for anything non-trivial in unix shell scripts. See last paragraph of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_(command)#History

@sorenpeter@darch.dk oh, I thought we were settled on TABs for a while now, weren’t we? 🤔 The new website mentions TABs too. The command echo -e (on any shell?) will use \t for them.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org what are you building now? The things you are mentioning I couldn’t even start wrapping my head around them! 😅 They sure sound expensive, tough.

Thanks @david@collantes.us, good to know, but we need to agree on what character we use, otherwise the hashes will not be the same:)

@sorenpeter@darch.dk a TAB is simply \t. Just add it to that echo line, and that’s it.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com You could just remove the {getuser()} part because you added ~.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt No.

iirc in twtxt v2 it starts prohibited

This is not true. There are no issues supporting fetching feeds via Gemini/Gopher. This is totally fine. What will likely happen is “recommendations” and “drawbacks of using Gemini/Gopher”

Ok, i know how to command working (not sure), but seems it only grab from cache. Maybe make fetch from twtxt.net if hash not found?

@prologic@twtxt.net Regarding the new way of generating twt-hashes, to me it makes more sense to use tabs as separator instead of spaces, since the you can just copy/past a line directly from a twtxt-file that already go a tab between timestamp and message. But tabs might be hard to “type” when you are in a terminal, since it will activate autocomplete…🤔

Another thing, it seems that you sugget we only use the domain in the hash-creation and not the full path to the twtxt.txt

$ echo -e "https://example.com 2024-09-29T13:30:00Z Hello World!" | sha256sum - | awk '{ print $1 }' | base64 | head -c 12

should i delete gemini support from twet? iirc in twtxt v2 it starts prohibited. And all of my fields are https

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt am I understanding correctly that you do not have a desktop/laptop computer, but a pocket Android based one?

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I’ve just given it a try on android/termux and got it to work, I can’t promise it won’t break something else (because i definitely don’t know what I’m doing) but here’s what I broke 😅:

~/src/jenny $ git diff
diff --git a/jenny b/jenny
index ada8da2..8ae9a06 100755
--- a/jenny
+++ b/jenny
@@ -1194,7 +1194,7 @@ if __name__ == '__main__':
     if args.edit:
	edit_twt_file(app)
     elif args.fetch:
-        with DirectoryLock(f'/tmp/jenny-{getuser()}.run'):
+        with DirectoryLock(expanduser('~/tmp/jenny-{getuser()}.run')):
             retrieve_all(app)
     elif args.last_seen:
	 print('Feeds last seen at (times are local time), oldest first:')

and of course make sure you mkdir ~/tmp

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Sorry I meant twet 🤦‍♂️

It has twts cache which used if timeline is set to jew. Maybe i.should fork twet to make wishes like newlines (i see two squares), showing conversations, showing twts if not found in cache and parsing medata to configure url, nick and followers (currenly it duplicated in config and twtxt file)

There we go!

=> twtxt.dev

🥳

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt twt probably isn’t the best client I’m afraid. It doesn’t really cache twts by their key (hash) to display threads properly. Jenny however does 👌

twet display twts in raw format with some formatting (sadly no newlines). And for reply messages i just seen (#hash). But which text hidden on hash? currenly im open twtxt.net/twt/hash to see this

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt Thanks! I’ve almost come up with my own theme already 🤣 I actually don’t really want to use Hugo at all, I find it too complicated. But it is pretty popular so I thought maybe I’d rip-off a nice theme… Hmmm 🧐

Anyway, What I really normally use for a lot of my static sites is zs

I’m looking to develop a static site for twtxt.dev – A domain I own and have wanted to use for developer and specification docs for Twtxt.

Can anyone recommend a few Hugo themes you like?

All of the dev.twtxt.net content would move over as well.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt see jenny.

@doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt I am not sure I am understanding what you mean. Can you explain?

Lol, im just join for several minutes. Wait, Merkle Trees in twtxt?

👋 Thanks for joining us on our Sept monthly Yarn.social meetup today y’all 🙇‍♂️ We had @david@collantes.us @sorenpeter@darch.dk @doesnm@doesnm.p.psf.lt @falsifian@www.falsifian.org and @xuu@txt.sour.is 💪 Nice turn out! (not all at once of course, as we normally run this over 4 hours as we span many time zones!)

Things we talked about:

• Decentralised vs. Distributed
  
• Use of SHA256 for Twt Hash(es)
  
• We solved Edits! 🥳
  
• UUID(s) probably won’t work! (susceptible to sppofing)
  
• Helped @sorenpeter@darch.dk write some PHP to process/parse User-Agent and service his feed via a custom PHP script 😅
  
• @falsifian@www.falsifian.org introduced himself 👌
  
• Talked about Merkle Trees 🌳
  

Did I miss anything? 🤔

@prologic@twtxt.net YES James, it should be up to the client to deal with changes like edits and deletions. And putting this load on the clients, location-addressing with make this a lot easier since what is says it: Look in this file at this timestamp, did anything change or went missing? (And then threading will not break;)

@bender@twtxt.net It’s the experience of an ordinary person in a strange place where memories are disappearing with the help of the Memory Police. The setting feels contemporary (to the book’s 1994 publication date) rather than futuristic, except for some unexplained stuff about memories.