@bender@twtxt.net I should put the template that is used by default as a file in the repo. Look at the source for now and you’ll see 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I never implemented UI support for their creation 🤣

When will I learn to not look at my work’s smartphone in my free time? 😂 Opened the corporate chat, instant regret.

@prologic@twtxt.net how would a default template look like?

@prologic@twtxt.net Weeeeeeeeeeeeelllll … I have removed support for that in jenny about a month ago. 🥴 Nobody ever used them, only hashes.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I didn’t run the command as you recommended, but, I wiped things once more, and ran jenny -f, and this time got:

david@arrakis:~$ jenny -f
Fetching archived feed https://anthony.buc.ci/user/abucci/twtxt.txt/1 (configured as abucci, https://anthony.buc.ci/user/abucci/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://darch.dk/twtxt-archive.txt (configured as soren, https://darch.dk/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2024-04-21_6v47cua.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/1 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2022-12-21_2us6qbq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/2 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2022-01-14_ew5gzca.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/3 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2024-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-12-23_f6y65bq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/4 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-12-04_e4x7yba.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/5 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-11-18_42tjxba.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/6 (configured as prologic, https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-11-08_i2wnvaa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-10-23_kvwn5oa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-10-11_mljudaa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-09-22_5mkqwua.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-07-27_xcnzmlq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-06-16_mtedqya.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-04-29_z7lvzja.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-03-19_xjabvhq.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-02-24_te4a6oa.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2023-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2021-01-26_qxgigma.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt-old_2020-12-13_igfnala.txt (configured as movq, https://www.uninformativ.de/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2022-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-11.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-10.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-09.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-08.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-07.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-06.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-05.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-04.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-03.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-02.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2021-01.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)
Fetching archived feed https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt-2020-12.txt (configured as lyse, https://lyse.isobeef.org/twtxt.txt)

Notice that @prologic@twtxt.net’s /6 is there. I found the twtxt then. Kind of odd it didn’t show before.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org One of them is lying. >:-)

Mangled in what way? How does it look like? 🤔

Just that yarnd (at least) doesn’t support creating such a custom TwtSubject, but it will reply and respect and thread one if one was constructed.

@falsifian@www.falsifian.org You will actually find that they work perfectly fine. They just tend to have little value I think. Most of our clients do support them, jenny,ttandyarnd...

At least you took the time to file an issue on a decentralised Git server 💪 Thank you! 🙏

@movq@www.uninformativ.de

Maybe I’m being a bit too purist/minimalistic here. As I said before (in one of the 1372739 posts on this topic – or maybe I didn’t even send that twt, I don’t remember 😅), I never really liked hashes to begin with. They aren’t super hard to implement but they are kind of against the beauty of the original twtxt – because you need special client support for them. It’s not something that you could write manually in your twtxt.txt file. With @sorenpeter@darch.dk’s proposal, though, that would be possible.

Tangentially related, I was a bit disappointed to learn that the twt subject extension is now never used except with hashes. Manually-written subjects sounded so beautifully ad-hoc and organic as a way to disambiguate replies. Maybe I’ll try it some time just for fun.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de (#3xpygsq) @movq@www.uninformativ.de I have a slightly different but compatible view:

What makes twtxt unique is its radical technical simplicity. And that means you have to be a tech-savvy person to appreciate twtxt and that means mass-appeal is pretty much out of the question to begin with. 😅

You see, if you recall my old man ain’t all that great with tech these days, though he used to be and that’s how I got into it, encouraged as a young lad. Anyway… I built yarnd for that purpose, so a) I could use it as my daily driver (think of it like Jenny/tt but for the web with a little server) and b) so others could use it too (admitedly that hasn’t been well adopted because reasons)

Anyway my view is that Yarn/Twtxt is designed to be a slow social media without distraction. I like that a lot. Forget the simplicity for a second, if you think about how we use this, and how damn well fucking effective it is, without all the ads, tracking, god knows what useless-ass features, all the nonsense multi-Megabytes your browser has to download, just to post what you ate for breakfast, I like what we’ve built 😅

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com If you’re talking about me, I’m notorious for typos 🤣 I type too fast, and I think I need a new keyboard, these keys are getting stuck 😅 Either that or I need to take my blowvac to it and clean the dust, skin and muck under the butterfly keys 🎹

It feels like an A’ Hole pointing at typos while other people are the ones doing the real work ! 😅

Hmmmm, I somehow run into an encoding problem where my inserted data end up mangled in the database. But, both SQLite and Go use UTF-8. What’s happening here? :-?

@cuaxolotl@sunshinegardens.org

i hope we don’t go chasing mass-appeal

I don’t think this is going to happen any time soon.

What makes twtxt unique is its radical technical simplicity. And that means you have to be a tech-savvy person to appreciate twtxt and that means mass-appeal is pretty much out of the question to begin with. 😅

Yarn adds a lot of user-friendliness and, in a way, does try to appeal to the masses. And it almost worked. When Twitter died, we saw a substantial influx of new users, didn’t we? Only problem is, Mastodon had a massive headstart. The Fediverse was already huge, so what did Yarn/twtxt have to offer? It is way simpler and way easier to self-host, but who cares about that? Right, the tech-savvy people, not the masses. Many of the tech-savvy people were already using Mastodon, though, and, frankly, “simplicity” is not something that a lot of folks even care about. Thus Yarn/twtxt never took off.

A nice afternoon. Mild weather (~23°C), sitting on the balcony, working a bit on jenny, and spamming twt’s. 😅

@bender@twtxt.net Now that I’m thinking about it, I could just add in a cron job on my remote machine with: twtxt2html https://domain.ltd/twtxt.txt > /path/to/static_files_dir/ that way I could benefit from the ‘relative time’ portion I’m getting rid of with the -n …

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com I just added support for passing a custom template file via -T/--template in case you need a custom template 👌

prologic@JamessMacStudio
Wed Sep 18 01:27:29
~/Projects/yarnsocial/twtxt2html
 (main) 130
$ ./twtxt2html --help
Usage: twtxt2html [options] FILE|URL

twtxt2html converts a twtxt feed to a static HTML page
  -d, --debug             enable debug logging
  -l, --limit int         limit number ot twts (default all) (default -1)
  -n, --noreldate         do now show twt relative dates
  -r, --reverse           reverse the order of twts (oldest first)
  -T, --template string   path to template file
  -t, --title string      title of generated page (default "Twtxt Feed")
  -v, --version           display version information
pflag: help requested

@prologic@twtxt.net I’d be glad to! I’m just taking time to get well acquainted with it’s ins and out before saying something stupid 😅 Like… I’ve just noticed the -n 🫠

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Oh! 🤣 For some reason I thought my first feed was lost and gone 🤣 Hahahaha it’s been there the whole time 😅 Fuck we write good specs and software 🥳

@falsifian@www.falsifian.org I like this idea too as a completing solution to the “identify problem”:

Or maybe url changes could somehow be combined with the archive feeds extension? Could the url metadata field be local to each archive file, so that to switch to a new url all you need to do is archive everything you’ve got and start a new file at the new url?

👌

@quark@ferengi.one At the moment, the twt in question exists in the sixth archive:

$ jenny -D https://twtxt.net/user/prologic/twtxt.txt/6 | head
[o6dsrga] [2020-07-18 12:39:52+00:00] [Hello World! 😊]


Does that work for you? 🤔

One thing that’s on my mind over the last few days about all this Twt editing and identity stuff we’ve been having hot debates over is this…

I don’t really have a problem with editing twts, or someone changing their feed’s URL.

Personally I think the folks that do are rightfully pedantic and like a good user experience, which I don’t blame ‘em. I would expect the same too. Anyway, just wanted to get that out there, I believe we can support editing and identity in a way that is still simple, as long as we bring clients along for the ride with us. The old/legacy original client though will have to remain well, ya know 😅

@prologic@twtxt.net

(#w4chkna) @falsifian@www.falsifian.org You mean the idea of being able to inline # url = changes in your feed?

Yes, that one. But @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org pointed out suffers a compatibility issue, since currently the first listed url is used for hashing, not the last. Unless your feed is in reverse chronological order. Heh, I guess another metadata field could indicate which version to use.

Or maybe url changes could somehow be combined with the archive feeds extension? Could the url metadata field be local to each archive file, so that to switch to a new url all you need to do is archive everything you’ve got and start a new file at the new url?

I don’t think it’s that likely my feed url will change.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Well at this point I think I’m going to try to combine @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org’s idea for supporting moving your feed to a different URL and this idea for supporting editing. I’ll spec it up and see if what we think from there…

@prologic@twtxt.net Correct. :-D

@prologic@twtxt.net Yeah, that thing with (#hash;#originalHash) would also work.

Maybe I’m being a bit too purist/minimalistic here. As I said before (in one of the 1372739 posts on this topic – or maybe I didn’t even send that twt, I don’t remember 😅), I never really liked hashes to begin with. They aren’t super hard to implement but they are kind of against the beauty of the original twtxt – because you need special client support for them. It’s not something that you could write manually in your twtxt.txt file. With @sorenpeter@darch.dk’s proposal, though, that would be possible.

I don’t know … maybe it’s just me. 🥴

I’m also being a bit selfish, to be honest: Implementing (#hash;#originalHash) in jenny for editing your own feed would not be a no-brainer. (Editing is already kind of unsupported, actually.) It wouldn’t be a problem to implement it for fetching other people’s feeds, though.

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m basically with @movq@www.uninformativ.de, but in contrast to him, I’m not looking forward to implement something like that. :-)

A feed URL is plenty good enough for me. Since I only fetch feeds that I explicity follow, there is some basic trust in those feeds already. Spoofing, impersonation and what not are no issues for me. If I were to find out otherwise, I just unsubscribe from the evil feed. Done.

To retrieve public feeds, I just rely on TLS. Most are served via HTTPS. If a feed is down, I’m not trying to fetch it from some other source, I just wait and try again later. So signed messages/feeds are not a use case I’m particularly benefitting from.

To me, it’s just not worth at all adding this crypto complexity on top.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com Btw, I’m also open to ideas for this tool and welcome any contributions 👌

I’ve got 100G to copy from one disk to another. This is going to take forever…

@bender@twtxt.net It’s just a simple twtxt2html and scp … it goes like:

twtxt2html $HOME/path/to/local_twtxt_dir/twtxt.txt > $HOME/path/to/local_twtxt_dir/log.html && \
scp $HOME/path/to/local_twtxt_dir/log.html user@remotehost:/path/to/static_files_dir/

I’ve been lazy to add it to my publish_command script, now I can just copy/pasta from the twt 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I did the same. jenny fetches archives, yes, but that twtxt I am referring about is no longer. If you fetch it, but I don’t, there is certainly something going on…

It would mean clients that support the TwtSubject and TwtHash extension, should also indicate the previous version of their Twt when editing.

Ultimately I think we just need to agree on a way to represent an edit and the previous version of a Twt in a way that makes sense. I like one of the ideas presented earlier in some other thread (god only knows which one haha 😝); That is: <timestamp> (#hash;#originalHash) <content> For example.

@quark@ferengi.one Hmm. I cannot reproduce this. 🫤 I just removed all files in ~/.cache/jenny and ~/Mail/twt/cur, and a subsequent jenny -f properly fetches everything.

Do you see all the “Fetching archived feed …” messages?

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I think if Git can solve the same problem of branching, forking, patching and merging, so can we 🤣

@movq@www.uninformativ.de No that’s okay. I happen to agree with you really, I just wanted to get a bit of a vibe on using cryptography in general and the idea of signing feeds. It’s not particularly about a problem being solved, just gauging your opinions/thoughts on this 👌

@prologic@twtxt.net

Your propose scheme while simple doesn’t do this.

It doesn’t do that because it’s not taking the content of a twt into account (only its timestamp). Okay. But the mere fact that we’re talking about “how to solve the edit problem” stems from using content addressing – so maybe content addressing isn’t the best thing to use here? 🤔

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m very torn on this.

It’s a cool idea and it’s cool technology. It would (probably) even be fun to implement.

But do we need it? Or rather, does twtxt need it? What problem are you trying to solve – are people migrating their feeds to new URLs all the time? 🤔 That’s rather rare in my experience. The URL as the primary identifier of a feed works fine for me.

Maybe I just don’t understand the problem well enough yet? 🤔

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I did started from scratch, today. I using am commit 6e8ce5afdabd5eac22eae4275407b3bd2a167daf (HEAD -> main, origin/main, origin/HEAD), I keep myself up-to-date, LOL. Still, that specific twtxt (o6dsrga) is no longer.

@quark@ferengi.one

jenny does fetch archived feeds during the normal jenny -f operation […]

… but you need to use the current Git version which includes this commit:

https://www.uninformativ.de/git/jenny/commit/6e8ce5afdabd5eac22eae4275407b3bd2a167daf.html

There was a bug that broke on @prologic@twtxt.net’s feed. 🥴

@quark@ferengi.one

Since jenny can’t fetch archived twtxts

I wiped my entire maildir and re-fetched everything. I did that recently because @aelaraji@aelaraji.com asked me to 😅, but I guess I also did this back in 2023.

What did you do to make yours work?

jenny does fetch archived feeds during the normal jenny -f operation. Only when using the recently implemented --fetch-context, archived feeds are not fetched (yet). That was an oversight and I intend to fix that.

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com can you share the workflow you are using on jenny to convert twtxt.txt to HTML using @prologic@twtxt.net’s code?

@aelaraji@aelaraji.com We just have to write better clients 🤣 I have figured out how to detect edits FWIW, but haven’t gone from R&D phase to an actual design and implementation. But it is possible to detect an edit as well as a similarity score and the matching Twts.

@sorenpeter@darch.dk It’s nobody’s fault! 😇 It’s all part of the fun with them Ones and Zeros

@quark@ferengi.one I think I may have lost my original feed because it was written with the old software before Yarn social became a thing.

@sorenpeter@darch.dk not really you’re really forming a cryptographic chain of twts, that are cryptographically provable by anyone, at least in one direction ). It’s called content addressing. Your propose scheme while simple doesn’t do this.

After re-fetching feeds, the earliest twtxt I have from you is n7gavoa.

@prologic@twtxt.net, your first twtxt ever was o6dsrga, but I can’t find the source for it (the raw file). I reset everything, and re-fetched fresh feeds (allegedly including archives). Where is it?